To bring a child into the world currently

[Autumnwater87]

I feel in such a pickle at the moment. I thought i wanted kids for most of my life it’s what I imagined. However this last year I can’t stop thinking about what an absolute S#%t show it seems to be at the moment, potential of war more likely, climate change seems to be more obvious, rising costs the list goes on it’s bloody doom and gloom. The thought of bringing a child into this at times breaks my heart, then I see loads of people optimistically and excitedly trying to conceive and getting pregnant on here and in real life friends and family etc, then I think, this must all be in my head look at all these people having babies or trying for babies am I just being dramatic? I don’t like the thought of not having kids but am I being selfish or am I just overthinking and people believe everything will settle back down?

People arguing over west east etc are missing the point. We're all fucked.

We can innovate. If we carried on as we are, we would be, but that probably won't happen for humans. Unfortunately many plants and animals are fudged

I'm fairly sure humankind will survive for a good while, even if mainly the elite. It'd have to get pretty hot before a/c became ineffective.

You need power to have a/c.

I would definitely not have a child now. It's really too much of a frightening prospect as far as their futures are concerned. Plus the affordability worries that may hugely amplify in the future.

Well, solar power will surely become more viable with rising temps. 😂

I think you’re right to be worried. Climate change and the damage we are doing to the planet is almost a stage where it is irreversible, and ppl still don’t listen, companies still make tonnes of plastic and nothing much gets recycled. Throughout history we’ve had wars, famines, pandemics. Not climate change though and that will kill us off and the animals around us. My DD at 20 doesn’t want children because of climate change, it’s so sad, if I had my time again I wouldn’t have had kids saying that you’ll love them and they are the future but what future.

Being a mother was the only thing that I’ve ever truly wanted to be. I have 5 and the future genuinely terrifies me. I live day to day and just hope that things get better again, but if o had my time again, I honestly don’t know if I’d have had my children - however much joy they bring me. They make MY life worth living, without them I literally wouldn’t be here, but I don’t think that trade off would be enough for me. I want my children to have “better” than I had, and I honestly don’t think that’s going to be the case.

I think you are overthinking and being anxious about things you cannot control and have no influence over. You can however control and influence if you have kids.

People made homeless during the great fire of London, Jewish people seeing their lives decimated in the 1930 and 40s, people who saw their husbands and sons murdered in two world wars in their lifetime, gay men in the 80s and 90s seeing so many of their friends die, people living under the threat of the Cold War, people removed from Chernobyl, people seeing people die during the plague, people living in America during the Great Depression, anyone enslaved during 400 years of slavery, black people living during apartheid seeing no way out for their children probably all felt the same. History is full of really shit times we're just a bit cosseted because we've lived through an unusually peaceful time and usually we see things happening to other people on the news but we're not used to things directly impacting us.

OP I completely feel you. I've been thinking a lot about this lately (every day) and as much as I adore my young teen, I feel incredibly worried about their future and guilty about bringing them into this.

Catastrophic climate change is a given now within a few decades, people won't stop their meat and dairy, mcdonald's and gas guzzlers and people are increasingly selfish and out for themselves imo. I hold out no hope for the current government or any meaningful systematic change to halt the decline.

I had them fairly young and in a whirlwind and probably didn't consider this seriously enough.
I've been thinking lately and were I in a position now to think about having children or not, I wouldn't do it. My child has debilitating long covid as well and faces repeated reinfection (because others are selfish) and therefore a difficult time even trying to have a 'normal' life and there's no help out there. Everyone acts like its over- its not. And more pandemics are coming due to animal agriculture, factory farming, antibiotic resistance etc. People have their heads in the sand (trying to cope, I know, but still).

Honestly, i think you're just being a realist and a really kind person. I think a lot of people have children for themselves, or because that's what they think they should do or aim for in life, but you're questioning this and thinking outside of that.

There's also the worry and responsibility placed on you if you do decide to have them- that existential stress weighs extremely heavy, take it from me.

I'd perhaps consider fostering or adoption if you want kids in your life, they are already here and you can make their lives better.

This is incredibly hard stuff to think about so be gentle with yourself 🌸

Completely agree with everything @Rosequartz7 has said above. I have recently made the sad choice not to have any more children even though I would have loved to have had a child with my current partner. My reasons are the concerns in your OP. I already have a young teen and worry a lot about his future, what it will look like. I see babies and toddlers right now and feel immense sadness for them and their parents, I don't feel that most people fully accept to wish to look at what is coming down the line but it isn't nice I think. You get strafed on here for saying that, but that doesn't change what is very likely to happen.

Not ruthlessly euthanising people.
Maybe considering the individuals preference?

😂 humans need more than air conditioning to survive. We need plants and animals to eat and we’re doing a pretty good job of destroying them. We’re facing drought, flooding, soil erosion, deforestation, famine and war.

The responsibility for this isn’t on the individual, however much government might try and convince us otherwise. The scale of the problem is vast and needs to be addressed by governments and corporations. You giving up meat and driving an electric car will hardly make a dent.

Loads of ppl are saying look at shit times in our history well yeah there were loads And they are horrendous but none of them compare to the environmental damage, the amount of wilderness that exists on this planet, in 1964 was 64% now it’s around 35%! The more we destroy our surroundings the more pandemics we will have the more animals we will kill off… etc etc… climate change, our environment is without a doubt the biggest threat to humanity. Listen or read David Attenborough’s book on a life on our planet it’s so sad and even though there are pockets in every country where ppl are changing and trying to reverse climate change it’s not happening quickly enough and there are far too many corporate giants that simply don’t care. The rainforest if it continues to be cut down will cause irreversible damage to the whole planet. Go out and look at all the new builds going up and the woods being chopped down and the ppl in the shops buying more plastic. And the twatty ppl like kardashians that fly private jets everywhere. Climate change is not only real it’s almost at a point where it irreversible.

I get what you're saying, but i disagree. Let's all not bother doing our bit and strive to actively contribute to a shittier world for our DC cause its not our responsibility? Great plan.
The governments and corporations AREN'T doing anything though, are they?

On the other hand, lots of individuals making easy lifestyle changes reduces demand for things accelerating our decline towards climate catastrophe and can add up to a big movement and create change, even if just a small change for the better. For my personal conscience and for all existing and future children, I'll choose the latter cause to me its better than doing nothing.
Sitting there carrying on doing the same destructive things because you don't think any of it will make a difference or you're relying on 'someone else' to do something seems really sad to me. And kinda supports the reasons given in this thread for not bringing children into such a selfish world.
When the world feels out of control we've gotta cling to what we can control. And we can control to some extent (especially in this country) what we consume and what we put into the world. So I'll do the best I can with what ive got for those kids already here with no choice that face climate catastrophe etc even if its pissing into the wind 🤷🏼‍♀️

Hmm, none of the things you reference are on the scale of global climate catastrophe and mass extinction.

I believe it is recognised in various quarters now that climate doomism/helplessness, whilst understandable, is not good for our ability to make progress. It seem pointless to take individual actions in our consumption or write letters/protest etc but it is better than doing nothing - at the very least it shows how many people care about climate change. If lots of people go "oh well, what's the point" it is easier for those who can make large scale change to go "look, most people don't care, let's keep doing what we want."

Anyway, this video might be of interest: It is from a channel that does science education videos - they are realistic about the state of climate change but also have a positive outlook on what has been done and a hopeful message. Their end conclusion is that doomerism etc are the only playing cards left to those who don't want change and that we shouldn't let them win by feeling hopeless and being inactive.

Oh I love Kurzgesagt - will have to watch that.

That’s fascinating thanks for suggesting

ive just sent it to DH who is all doom and gloom about the state of the world, it affects his mood every day

i have 1 DC and newly pregnant with DC2 and I’m very worried, wondering if we’re doing the right thing etc

Brilliant video - and actually filled in a weird gap for me that I never understood - I hadn't realised that in 2012/2013 the prevailing view was that we WOULD reach apocalyptic levels of climate change. I honestly thought people saying things like that were just being overdramatic or pessimistic leaning towards the scary end of the scale, I didn't know it was actually THE evidence based prediction. No wonder people are scared if that's what was being put out! (I fully admit to being out of the loop since I had small children/moved country/had more small children). It's encouraging to hear that is now very unlikely.

I know this post is old, but I agree with the OP. New builds are being built on every square inch of available green space, the NHS has been drastically underfunded and Labour only wants to rob Peter (secondary care) to pay Paul (primary care). Standards in schools have been slipping over the decades. Immigration is out of control. Smart phones are pervasive past the age of about 7.

It's not watching the news that puts me off, it's seeing what's around me.

I wouldn't have kids now. I don't think the world or planet is in a good place. I feel lucky that I'm not younger than I am (40s).