To bring a child into the world currently

[Autumnwater87]

I feel in such a pickle at the moment. I thought i wanted kids for most of my life it’s what I imagined. However this last year I can’t stop thinking about what an absolute S#%t show it seems to be at the moment, potential of war more likely, climate change seems to be more obvious, rising costs the list goes on it’s bloody doom and gloom. The thought of bringing a child into this at times breaks my heart, then I see loads of people optimistically and excitedly trying to conceive and getting pregnant on here and in real life friends and family etc, then I think, this must all be in my head look at all these people having babies or trying for babies am I just being dramatic? I don’t like the thought of not having kids but am I being selfish or am I just overthinking and people believe everything will settle back down?

I used to know a mum who adopted two children rather than create more.

You're not being bashed, OP. Of course you don't have to have children if you don't want to - it's totally your choice. People are just saying that you should put the current issues in perspective so that you can make the right choice for you... whatever that choice might be.

there is always this option, I haven’t ruled it out

I think having children is an absolutely crazy decision at any time. How can we possibly do something so momentous as causing a life? I did it myself twice by deciding not to decide but just to close my eyes and leap. That's all it can ever be. There can never be adequate reasons to motivate it or justify it.

I agree that the world is such an utterly dismal place that the moment that the decision is even harder than usual. Not just war, political corruption, decay, disease, climate change. But also (and mostly) the growing stupidity and elective ignorance/disinformation that we seem to be prone to at the moment. In the post-second world war period,until shortly after the millennium, we could fool ourselves that we were more enlightened and on an upward path. No more. What is the point of humans if we don't try to cultivate our unique ability for thought/reason/science/truth?

The irony of posting this on a parenting forum of all places 😂 think you'd be better off on Reddit!

It's just that you have access to more information. These things always happened. I don't think there is anything altruistic about having children and it's purely selfish; to satisfy your own needs. The emptiness of a life without children for someone who wants them is profound. I wouldn't risk it. I say this as someone who was very against having children for the very reasons you describe and then one came along. I think my lucky stars every day and gasp at what I would be left with without her. I have a very active life too, it would be so full, but also so empty.

People won't like your post or pretend it's not true because the large majority here have children and what you say hits a nerve.

And people saying well it's worse in other countries, I'm sure that's true, but just because it's worse elsewhere doesn't automatically make it great here and goodness knows what the future holds in the UK. It's not just climate change, food prices, the impossibility of getting on the property ladder but also the negative shifts in society since the invention of the internet- it has its benefits but so so many downsides.

The reality is that when you have a child, it's a complete and utter gamble as to how their life pans out.

It is a wholly selfish action, people decide that they want something small and cute to look after, they rate themselves really highly and think that the world will really benefit from having a smaller version of themselves, and they rate that as more important that inflicting 80 years of a crappy life on someone else.

But it has always been a gamble. That hasn't changed.

Maybe it depends on your own view of life. If you're generally happy and glad to be alive, despite whatever challenges you might face, then you will probably assume that your child is likely to be happy and glad too. If you're generally very anxious and miserable, then you're more likely to be concerned that your child will be the same... and you might be right, because your negative thoughts are quite likely to be passed down to your dc.

As for touching a nerve, the OP really hasn't in my case. I disagree with the OP not because I find what she's saying to be unpalatable but simply because I think she's wrong. I have no regrets about having my 17yo dd - she is loving life, full of the joys of youth and brimming with optimism and excitement for the future. And I'm excited for her. Sure, we both know that there will be challenges along the way - possibly big ones - but that's part of life. And there will also be joy and love and happiness and laughter. Why on earth wouldn't I want that for her?

Perhaps it's as simple as whether you're an optimist or a pessimist in the end!

I am happy to be alive thank you and I’m comfortable with the life I have at the moment and sometimes I can be a pessimist yes. If I’m you read one of my posts on here you would see I’ve said I’ve felt like the last 2.5years I have taken a bit of a bashing mentally which is why I asked if I was being dramatic, I wanted to get other views outside of my own which I have done. Some seeing my point of view currently and some reaffirming what I thought previously

And that's why some of us are saying to look at things through the long lens of history.

Yes, the last two years have been pretty shit for most of us in different ways - for some more than others, obviously. But there have been periods of challenge and hardship throughout history. There is no reason why now is any worse than ever.

These aren’t unreasonable things to be concerned about at all OP; times are uncertain right now, and the onslaught of depressing news stories can feel overwhelming. It’s great that you’re putting so much thought into whether to have children - I wish more people would, instead of just going with the flow and ending up with more DC than they can support and cope with.

Personally I wouldn’t be put off having DC at all - as several PPs have said children bring light and joy to the world, and we need the dynamism, optimism and ingenuity of younger people to help overcome some of the challenges you mention. A world populated overwhelmingly by the elderly is a depressing prospect!

That said, we’ve decided to stop at one child, largely for the reasons you’ve outlined. The overarching theme of the near future at least seems to be one of increasing insecurity and dwindling resources, and we want to be as sure as we can that we can provide DD with everything she’ll need to thrive in such a world. I do worry for those among my friends who are trying to support 2 or 3 children on relatively modest incomes, and wonder what their kids’ future prospects will be.

Given people's head in the sand attitude to the climate emergency I too would not do it. Lord knows what sort of fucked up world they will have to live in. Heartbreaking.

This.

Regarding misinformation. I think people have very short memories. In recent history European countries have had all western communication cut off and been fed propaganda for years, let alone the Nazi era where you could be legally murdered for your political view as early as the 1920s. Whereas we now have access to all the information we could possibly want and we all have a vote. It is 100% not the same as fake news so I don't understand this argument at all.

I also think the definition of 'dismal' here needs clarifying.

If people waited until the world was in an ideal condition to raise kids, they'd never have them and humanity would have gone extinct long ago..... 🤦‍♂️

If people born in the 50s and 60s had decided to abstain due to the world they lived in then, most of mumsnet wouldn't exist now

If you want some positivity and balance about the world and have a spare hour, give this a watch. It's well researched and informative.

I think there’s a good chance that our children will have long and happy lives, surrounded by family and friends.

I’ve no regrets at all about starting a family.

Perhaps I'm an overly anxious person but I feel the same OP. I was so happy and naive and loved building my family but now the youngest is 2.5. I genuinely fear the thought of getting pregnant and sometimes catch myself holding my breath bit and wishing they would grow up and be a bit less vulnerable.

Oh and obviously I dont regret having a family! My children are my world. But yes I worry about being vulnerable and pregnant/with a young baby right now.

Very insightful! Thanks for the link

I LOVE (the late ) Hans Rosling!

Plenty of childfree women on mumsnet or haven't you realised that? Also plenty of women who regret having children.

I am entitled to my opinion and I think it is incredibly selfish to have children. But so many women are selfish "I want children so I SHALL have them". If more stopped and considered the world they were bringing them into maybe the world would not be as overcrowded as it is

The planet would be in such a better state if humans were extinct

One branch of my family come from a village where 1/3-3/4 of the population died during the Black Death (my lot were there at the time as far as can be told from the records) It was actually quarantined at one point. It must have been like the Apocalypse being visited on this poor benighted bunch of medieval peasants. I'm sure it was the same for a great many of our ancestors.

Yet here I am and here we all are.