To bring a child into the world currently

[Autumnwater87]

I feel in such a pickle at the moment. I thought i wanted kids for most of my life it’s what I imagined. However this last year I can’t stop thinking about what an absolute S#%t show it seems to be at the moment, potential of war more likely, climate change seems to be more obvious, rising costs the list goes on it’s bloody doom and gloom. The thought of bringing a child into this at times breaks my heart, then I see loads of people optimistically and excitedly trying to conceive and getting pregnant on here and in real life friends and family etc, then I think, this must all be in my head look at all these people having babies or trying for babies am I just being dramatic? I don’t like the thought of not having kids but am I being selfish or am I just overthinking and people believe everything will settle back down?

@Blossomtoes but that's what people in the west who are concerned with overpopulation would need to contemplate which is my point.

You seriously think we’re going to start euthanising people? At what age do you think that would be reasonable?

@YesJess

You're right. The world average is actually 2.4.

But you're aware the discrepancies within that because average is meaningless. The vast majority of the world is not having 2 kids. Some parts of Africa it's very high & in much of the west it's below replacement level.

My grandmother is 93 and still cooks and catches the bus. Perfectly sound of mind too.

Why is this relevant? You are aware of the difference between anecdotal & statistical evidence?

The level of critical thinking is astounding...

I agree absolutely with this. Climate change is out of control now and will get unimaginably worse in the future.

@Blossomtoes I'm not sure what it is you are not understanding? overpopulation in the UK & much of the west is caused by people living longer & immigration not too many dc. Of course I'm not saying euthanise the elderly but I'm not wringing my hands like some about overpopulation.

Of course I'm not saying euthanise the elderly

Thank you for clarifying. I thought you were.

@BertieBotts I don't understand the reluctance to understand it. I suspect a key part is this we in the West aren't going to be the dominant global players any more.

More people = more resources

It's that simple. I wouldn't want children now.

@Blossomtoes no I was saying people who think the west is overpopulated would need to contemplate euthanise if they wanted to deal with it as that would be the only way to stop the population "growing". We now have more over 65s in the U.K. than under 15s & it's one reason our job market is so tight now.

We now have more over 65s in the U.K. than under 15s

Of course we do, that scenario is entirely predictable, it’s been coming down the tracks for over 50 years. The answer is not to euthanise people. The answer is to stop being so xenophobic and welcome immigration.

@OperaStation Yes, exactly, this is what worries me, that we have passed the tipping point. I have 3 grown up children, none are planning on starting a family yet( for a variety of reasons). Secretly I hope they don't because I imagine them, or their children suffering due to climate change. I try to keep this to myself. I find it really strange how my friends are so excited to become grandparents, I look at the babies born now and feel dread for what they will experience in their lifetime.

It’s an impossible situation. A falling birthdate is catastrophic in the short term. We have an aging population with fewer and fewer young people to pay the taxes required to fund them. We think the issues with the NHS and social care are bad now but it’s nothing compared to what it will be like when our elderly population becomes unsustainable (arguably it already is).

On the other hand, every additional child creates a huge environmental burden, especially in the west where we have such a gigantic carbon footprint.

The answer is not to euthanise people. The answer is to stop being so xenophobic and welcome immigration.

you think people who think we are overpopulated are pro immigration? 😆

We think the issues with the NHS and social care are bad now but it’s nothing compared to what it will be like when our elderly population becomes unsustainable (arguably it already is).

I think we are there tbh

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62267282.amp

Of course we do, that scenario is entirely predictable,

and yet we still have people who think our population growth is because of all the "feckless" having 5 babies for a council house 🙄

@Luna42 Thats the huge irony. Thanks to industrialization and far higher standards of living than previous generations, the majority of our children have survived and will live very long lives. But perhaps it was all pointless striving for this high standard of living and longevity, we’ve created such a mess in doing it!

I have still have hope for future generations though, humankind is very adaptable and resourceful.

The UK could sustain even more people if the infrastructure, health system etc was invested in, housing and schools and so on designed for people rather than profits, but it's either not a priority for government or they like the fact that it feels overpopulated and cramped because it keeps people arguing about benefits and immigration letting them do whatever they like without blame.

it will be unrecognisable’: total climate meltdown cannot be stopped, says expert ‘Soon it will be unrecognisable’: total climate meltdown cannot be stopped, says expert

But you're aware the discrepancies within that because average is meaningless. The vast majority of the world is not having 2 kids. Some parts of Africa it's very high & in much of the west it's below replacement level.

Yes, thanks for explaining how averages work. Did you also know most people in the UK don't magically earn £35k? It's just the average between a lot of higher and lower earners.

However, the average isn't meaningless at all. It's probably the best predictor of overall population figures in years to come.

Of course we do, that scenario is entirely predictable, it’s been coming down the tracks for over 50 years. The answer is not to euthanise people. The answer is to stop being so xenophobic and welcome immigration.

Unless they're qualified doctors/nurses then surely that will just stretch NHS resources even further. Listened to my colleague spend all yesterday afternoon and this morning trying to get through to the local fracture clinic. His son was supposed to have the cast off after a week and it's now been three with no update and the specialist who was supposed to call never did.

However, the average isn't meaningless at all. It's probably the best predictor of overall population figures in years to come.

what does this mean? Population growth around the world is very unbalanced. Most of the west are facing huge declines.

OP I think lots feel like you hence why such a big drop in birth rates.

Yes, but things like climate change don't only target the west.

who said it did? & contrary to what you might think we are going to need immigrants.

& not just doctors!