To bring a child into the world currently

[Autumnwater87]

I feel in such a pickle at the moment. I thought i wanted kids for most of my life it’s what I imagined. However this last year I can’t stop thinking about what an absolute S#%t show it seems to be at the moment, potential of war more likely, climate change seems to be more obvious, rising costs the list goes on it’s bloody doom and gloom. The thought of bringing a child into this at times breaks my heart, then I see loads of people optimistically and excitedly trying to conceive and getting pregnant on here and in real life friends and family etc, then I think, this must all be in my head look at all these people having babies or trying for babies am I just being dramatic? I don’t like the thought of not having kids but am I being selfish or am I just overthinking and people believe everything will settle back down?

This is just pure delusion.

Mydogisthebest

”I think anyone choosing to bring children into the world now is crazy and selfish. I do think though that probably the majority of people just don't even give it a seconds thought”

No they aren’t!

some people believe that keeping pets is selfish 🤷‍♀️

I used to feel like this too when my boy was tiny and I still get scared, especially with the current news. However, maybe your child will be part of a group that invents clean transport or a successful peace envoy or a radical fair new economy system.

Tiny babies can grow up to be tough, resilient, kind adults so go ahead and have your babies. Bring them up to be thoughtful, resourceful and minimalist. X

I’m 60 and several friends of my parents in the 1960s decided that they wouldn’t have children as they couldn’t face bringing them into a world under the very real threat of nuclear war. Yet here I am, having lived a peaceful, happy life as a daughter, mother and grandmother. Terrible things have happened in the world during my lifetime but human kind finds a way through and so will this next generation.

@JorisBonson you miss my point - I don’t expect my children to necessarily care for me, but the workforce of people from future generations will be the careers, drs, surgeons etc who will, just Ali me all the other roles that society needs.

Thanks for taking the time to tell where I should be posting. Sorry but I will post where I like thank you.

Wow so you are a mind reader are you?

We actually did want children initially but after sensible debate and consideration we decided it was not a good idea. 40 years late we are absolutely 100% certain we made the right decision.

Despite the pathetic attempts by some posters to say otherwise, having children is totally selfish. Why does anyone have them? Oh because they want a child. Not because they think they can give them such a wonderful life but purely because they are selfish.

Also totally selfish to bring another human into a pretty shit world which is very overpopulated.

A poster said my attitude was sad, well I think parents bringing a child into the world and pretending it is all so wonderful and their child will not face a pretty awful future with climate change, rising sea levels, food shortages etc is extremely sad

👏👏

Despite the pathetic attempts by some posters to say otherwise, having children is totally selfish.

I agree that there is element of selfishness in wanting children. But I think your opinion is extreme. Without children, there will be no future for human kind. Some of the country have their own problem of aging population and not enough children are born to support the society.
It's the balance, isn't it?

I agree we have an ageing population but the solution can never be just to keep adding to the population. Then we get more older people and have to add even more children. Just cannot work especially with the problems we are going to face in the future

Also totally selfish to bring another human into a pretty shit world which is very overpopulated.

I don't really understand this, the current population growth is being driven by people living longer.

World was much worse 100 years ago and 100 before that. Although, that said, there's far too many humans on this planet already and the problem will only get worse as people have two kids, who then each have two kids, and so on.

@mydogisthebest You could say that about so many generations though, couldn’t you? After going through the horrors of the First World War, it seems crazy that anyone had children- then the Second World War killed many of them off. Then we moved into the Cold War with the threat of nuclear annihilation. Somehow people got through and continue to make medical and scientific breakthroughs every generation so now we live longer than ever. That’s the real population issue in many parts of the world, people live into their 80’s and 90’s due to higher standards of living.

Not having children is a valid choice, but I personally think that future generations will adapt and survive, and continue to make scientific breakthroughs to adapt to a changing climate. Personally, I think it’s we older generations that need to consider how we can cease to burden society by living so long, I’d be happy to call it a day at 80, for example!

Limiting the number of children is a reasonable argument but saying everyone who has kids is selfish and their kids have no future comes across a bit bitter.

Are you sure you don't resent sacrificing your chance at having children? That's a pretty big sacrifice to make, to not have any at all. I wouldn't even blame you.

Overpopulation is a problem but if people have a) few children and b) are conscious about their footprint, I don't see how it's selfish. Children often motivate people to care.

I wouldn’t if I was at the starting a family stage now. The thing that isn’t temporary is climate change, the only thing that’s going to happen with that is that it’ll get worse. I think you have to be a bit of an ostrich to have children now.

I agree we have an ageing population but the solution can never be just to keep adding to the population. Then we get more older people and have to add even more children. Just cannot work especially with the problems we are going to face in the future

much of the west has birth rates well below replacement rate & populations are going to be extremely top heavy. It's actually why I wouldn't have dc as the burden on them is going to be ridiculous.
If you look at history demographics matter.

Although, that said, there's far too many humans on this planet already and the problem will only get worse as people have two kids, who then each have two kids, and so on.

where does this misinformation come from? The vast majority of the world is not having 2 kids.

Personally, I think it’s we older generations that need to consider how we can cease to burden society by living so long, I’d be happy to call it a day at 80, for example!

quite, people concerned with overpopulation need to consider how long we should be allowed to live particularly as many countries haven't seen growth in healthy life expectancy

That sounds suspiciously like euthanasia @pushions. We don’t “allow” people to live any length of time. I suspect a lot of older people have their lives extended when they’d prefer they weren’t though.

You're right. The world average is actually 2.4. 😉

My grandmother is 93 and still cooks and catches the bus. Perfectly sound of mind too.

The video I posted earlier explains the "overpopulation/we are having too many children" myth very nicely.

People are already having less and less and less children. The biggest predictor of number of children is child mortality rates, access to contraception and education for women - and as this increases (as it is likely to) even in low income countries the birth rate reduces. This is already happening. We don't need to lower birth rates or have fewer children. It seems like the population is exploding and will continue to increase exponentially, but if you watch that's not actually what's happening.

The population growth is already set in motion. It's no longer stoppable - what we're seeing is adults growing up who never existed in previous generations, not because they died young but because they were never born in the first place. It's hard to explain in words but really, really easy to understand when Hans Rosling presents it. The relevant section is from 19:15 until 26:15, so it's not long. (It's very entertaining so you may find yourself watching more!)

Honestly I've never seen it explained ever anywhere else but it makes perfect sense and if it's true - which seems likely, looking at the UN population estimates - there's no point in trying to control population growth. The population won't increase indefinitely and we have already done what we need to do to prevent that from happening. Instead what we must work out is what to do with all the 11 billion people when they exist and basically that means accepting that we in the West aren't going to be the dominant global players any more.

Even the "top heavy" idea is a bit of a misunderstanding - we've always had fewer old people than other age groups because they died earlier and because previous generations have been smaller, but in the future it will be more even, which is not a situation we've ever had before, but doesn't mean the population is top heavy.

The frustrating part is seeing people get stuck on "we need to stop population growth" (we don't, and also, almost impossible) and nobody seems to want to talk about the two problems that are definitely going to happen even if everyone stopped having babies (which is unlikely to happen) - the numbers of older people and the numbers of people in general and the available land mass.

Another link in case you don't know what video I'm talking about and don't want to scroll back BTW

@YesJess I have many elderly relatives too and I want them around for many years to come. But if you look at overpopulation in purely practical terms, people living so long will strain the world’s resource. Purely personally, I’d be happy to call it a day sooner.

2.4 might be the global average, but it’s not the case in many countries.

Yes, so long as you opt to completely overlook climate change.

Climate change is the single biggest challenge ever faced by humanity and scientists are increasingly admitting that the time to act has passed. We are passed a tipping point and the world will never go back to how it once was. We face mass extinction.

I’m sorry if that’s inconvenient and I can understand why people want to ignore it, but it’s not going away.

I'm generally quite anxious about this stuff but even I hope that we'll innovate at some point. People don't take it serious until it really affects them, but I have faith people will come round eventually. Not without suffering and hardship of course.

If it's so imminent, what is the point in still living? Things can be turned around. The world will never be pristine as it was before humans, doesn't mean we're all gonna die for certain