If you tend to vote conservative can I ask a few questions - let’s keep it light and respectful!

[Holidayhavanas]

Full disclosure I tend to vote Labour, but I’m really interested to know if you tend to vote for the tories, what is your reasoning behind. the real shortage of qualified public sector workers for example teachers, social workers, police. A health service and education system on it’s knees. Police forces like Manchester and Met in special forces. I think that it’s symptomatic of years of underfunding. I work in the public sector and feel on a daily basis that the country is absolutely screwed. I assume most tory supporters would say it’s down to austerity but I feel it’s ideological cutting back on public funding. I’mgenuinely open to hear other views as I find it so depressing and just hope that it’s something I am missing. Let’s try and keep this respectful 😊

And public sector generally too

Most would vote for own interest financially not sure proportion though, you see a few posts on here saying I want higher tax - which they could offer to do voluntarily should they wish - but the reality is most people don’t want to be the group that is hit

Yes proportional representation might be an option but we don't have that system and we need a credible opposition. Labour have utterly failed to provide that and, as a result, deprived themselves of so many swing voters.

Agreed. Honestly, I can't imagine wanting to pay more tax. At least, not without a higher level of efficiency applied to existing expenditure and cutting out some of the waste.

This is the main reason I'd never vote Labour. I don't really agree with the 'taxing the rich' beyond what they currently pay. As someone pointed out earlier, you're already working half the week for the state on a 50% tax rate. I believe that's enough to provide decent public services if spent carefully.

Labour are massively ahead in the polls though, so clearly plenty of people currently think that they are a credible opposition.

Senior Labour MP John McDonnell says he supports a general strike and hits out at Sir Keir Starmer

These dinosaurs are still on the Jarrow March. They are an anachronism. A throw back to the 1970's. And that's why I can never vote for them.

That's a snapshot in time and a reaction to the recent scandals. The role of the opposition is to challenge and hold the incumbent government to account. Corbyn failed abysmally. Starmer has not faired much better, just reaped the rewards of the Tory party's implosion.

Thank you @balalake so the notion that voting for conservatives means less tax is a complete myth then. I would like to see higher tax of large businesses and corporations.

They should be absolutely cleaning up. I saw on yougov today only ahead by 6% (if I remember correctly).

You would see that if Sunak won the leadership

He is proposing higher corporation tax, it’s probably still ok but it’s not a vacuum - ie if other countries offer lower companies can move.

Ditto people, at some point the tax rate becomes so high people take earning elsewhere

Thank you @balalake so the notion that voting for conservatives means less tax is a complete myth then. I would like to see higher tax of large businesses and corporations.

But is the question not whether taxes would be higher under a Labour government? I think the answer is yes, at least for higher earners.

I would have said part of the austerity drive was to tighten the public sector finances after Blair and Brown's expenditure. I know the 'there's no money left' note was meant to be tongue in cheek, but it wasn't entirely baseless either.

Then again, Rishi and Boris have spent so much during the pandemic, some of it very poorly, that I don't feel I can put the massive public debt as just Labour's fault. Either way, that's why we're carrying the high level of personal taxation.

I guess I’m a centerist, I believe in a welfare state but when poorly structured I think it can incentivise dependency which is debilitating. I don’t think Labour see it that way, the argument about the 2 child tax credit limit is an example of that. Perfectly reasonable number of children.

I dislike massive wealth inequality but I also think redistribution is disincentivising. I think equality of opportunity is extremely important but you can’t give people equality of outcome.

I would like more grammar schools not fewer

Having lived elsewhere, the fetishisation of the NHS is silly, would like to see a european style system but Labour wouldn’t be able to do that.

I think there is not enough focus on personal agency from Labour. Some people have an utterly shit start to life, what drags a lot of them out is being shown they can do something to improve their lot, aspiration is important. That can be aspiration to be a plumber it doesn’t mean working for goldman.

But I’m a second gen immigrant, I grew up with stories of my family literally not having shoes. Definitely a focus there on not waiting around for someone to give you a pair you have to go out and get some. Btw it’s not like “they were poor but had love” both sides of my family are extremely dysfunctional.

I find Labour slightly patronising to minority groups. I still remember one of Corbyn’s campaign lines telling ethnic minority voters that only he could unlock our potential and that the conservatives have been holding us back. i’m sure a few doctors/lawyers/sons of bus drivers raised an eyebrow at that one.

I also think that some people born into privilege believe they are deserving of it when they are not. I do think that people have advantages in life which lead them to have much better lives than they would have if relying on their own talents.

So I tend to vote in the middle where possible. At times thats been Labour and at times thats been conservative.

Oh and I really dislike this “but the tories are eeeevil” stuff or people assuming that tory voters are all brainwashed by the media (I think it’s the new false consciousness) or rich or heartless. But thats some of the members not all obviously.

I remember that conservative conference when labour supporters were spitting on delegates, unfortunately they spat on some reporters who wrote about it 🙄. I think it may have been the same season where Labour were waving palestine flags. By all means support palestine but this is a party conference about how you are going to win the next GE of the UK.

I've voted for every party at some point and would be described as a floating voter. Some reasons I might vote conservative:

1: Transport. Labour don't seem to realise that not everybody lives in a city and that anti-car policies will lose my vote. I'm all for improving cycling infrastructure and public transport, but a crusade against private transport without any plan to provide viable alternatives is a major turn-off.

2: Money. I am by no means wealthy but I have a decent professional job and pay a lot of tax. The conservative view that work and achievement should be rewarded, that success is not immoral and that every penny of public spending should be justified and scrutinized is much closer to my view than that offered by labour.

3: Political correctness and identity politics. I have no time for any of it and labour seem to spend the majority of their time navel-gazing and pandering to this nonsense.

4: Personal choice, freedom and accountability. COVID-19 highlighted the philosophical differences between the parties on these issues. The conservative party was largely against lockdowns and authoritarian behavioural control, labour couldn't get enough of it.

There are also many things that put me off voting for them but right now they are the only major party I could vote for, though I might opt for a spoilt ballot instead.

Having come from extreme poverty (worse than anything that is considered as poverty today) I learned early on that life is not fair

Making it acceptable that if you want better then you just take it from those that have it promotes the wrong attitude. It takes away personal responsibility and creates a barrier to getting ahead in life.

Maybe because I am 2nd generation immigrant I think we probably have a different attitude to money and living with extended family.
The main aim was getting out of the slum estate we lived on so all money earned was pooled every evening and after rent and food shopping everything went into a savings account till we could afford to buy

The ones who didn’t move forward were the ones that had just enough to make their lives ok.

The way to address that perception is for the posters that do it to stop the insults

Indeed. Posters of all persuasions.

I'm interested in the narrative from some pp's that the Conservative party is far right. What do you base this on? The general view is that the current policies and practices are the most centrist/socialist for some considerable time, and in fact could move even more to the left under Liz Truss, particularly in Economic terms.

Here are a few:

Food banks are a good thing (Rees Mogg)
Agency workers being able to cover strikers (Kwarteng)
Proposed legislation to make strikes virtually impossible (Truss)
Sanctions on benefit claimants
Removal of the whip from 19 democratically elected MPs (Johnson)
Illegal proroguing of Parliament (Johnson)

Are those, off the top of my head, enough to be going on with? This government makes me yearn for the days of the Major government.

Yes i said this....

The centre here in the UK is totally different from the centre in say the EU.

Its fluid, moves about if you like.

Labours manifesto in 2019 was considered fairly far left BUT compare it to the Labour manifesto of 1945 or of Harold Wilsons 1964 one & it looks fairly mundane!

So look at Conservative policies on immigration, social, the EU, intervention.... its a million miles away from Edward Heath and 1970 & having compared to Le Pens RN, there are more similarities than not.

All of the above explains why i was happy with a One Nation Tory party but after Thatcher, i stopped being so, my views haven't really changed but the Conservative party has.

The conservative view that work and achievement should be rewarded, that success is not immoral and that
o my view than that offered by labour.

Do Labour/lefties say work and achievement should NOT be rewarded?
DoLabour/lefties think success IS immoral? (I'll reiterate here my earlier point about this narrative existing alongside the 'champagne socialist' one that, if anyone is a bit left-wing but also doesn't live in a hovel, they're a hypocrite).
every penny of public spending should be justified and scrutinized What, like the brilliant job with no hint of cronyism or corruption that the Tories did over PPE early in the pandemic?

^ sorry I mangled the quote bit.

I have noticed on this thread, and in life, a lot of children of immigrant families identifying with Conservative values. And I think that's really interesting because I think with that there is a lot of value on family values. So maybe the safety net is needed less because people look after their own family more.
For example the vast majority of rough sleepers I see in my city are white. Why is that? I certainly feel like we (white British people) expect the state to look after, for example, our old people. We talk of cutting off toxic family members, going no contact with the MIL etc.

I have always voted Labour but I must admit I do find i identify with some Conservative policies. My main issue though is that when the public sector services are taken away, it doesn't result in people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and getting on. It results in more children in poverty, and more people living on the streets.
So without a lot of investment in education, local economies and industry you don't see the results the tories tell us we'll get.

I certainly feel like we (white British people) expect the state to look after, for example, our old people

We expect them to sell their houses - if they own them - to pay for their own care. As someone who fully expects to have to do that, I don’t have an issue with it. And I’m as far from a Tory voter as you’ll ever find.

I agree. I also don't see the problem with that.

But if they're poor, don't have any assets or savings, the state will care for them.

Hardly any white British families have nana or grandad living with them anymore. Not compared to when I was a kid, and that's probably to do with women working outside the home now.

So lots of cultural issues come into play.

Blossomtoes I agree with you.

What I feel is interesting is the disconnect between the idea of personal responsibility, which I consider to be central to conservative narrative, and the idea that people are entitled to the inheritance of their parents and they shouldn't have to sell their houses to pay for their own care.

I vote Liberal and sometimes Labour. I voted Remain. My partner votes Green. We would likely be much better off under a Conservative government re. taxes, and whilst don’t claim to be totally altruistic, my life now is different to how I grew up so am sympathetic to towns with little industry, high unemployment, poor infrastructure, those on social welfare etc. I describe it as ‘affording’ to vote non-Tory as I can do private health, education, pension. Climate change is a big issue for me and in 50 years we’ll wonder what all these jokers were harping on about.

I don’t think the Conservatives are absolutely terrible on everything relative to other parties, although the recent scandals are beyond anything acceptable from an elected minister.

Theres been underfunding in areas of the public sector for sure. But being public sector doesn’t mean it’s good or efficient so despite my very leftie leanings it has got to the point where the tax is so high on on areas of my salary it makes me annoyed when I don’t believe it’s being spent effectively. This is a leadership issue and many I’ve met would be fired in industry. It’s large corporates and businesses where tax raises need to be sought from and any Labour leader wanting more tax from the squeezed middle (which I’m not saying I am) will push people away.

Yes, it is interesting. As is the reluctance to pay IHT on a completely unearned windfall.