Living abroad sucks aka now I'm not satisfied anywhere

[Kinsters]

We've lived in Malaysia for almost 7 years and now we've got two small children we're thinking about when we might move back to the UK. I've realised that I won't be totally happy in either place and wish I could mash the two together. Which would you pick to live in? Or what do you love about somewhere else in the world that you wish you could bring to the UK?

UK pros = family and friends, the weather (yes it is often rainy and a bit cold but it's so mild I feel like you can dress for it. There's no dressing for 30° heat and 90% humidity), the provisions for children are so much better - parks, museums, softplay, farms also everyone speaks English so it's easier to connect with people.

Malaysia pros = it's so cheap we can afford a nice house and a live in nanny/cleaner to help out, eating out is cheap, petrol is cheap, basically everything that's not imported is cheap, we live in a lovely neighbourhood with really nice neighbours, DH has a very secure job that pays fine, weirdly I like that there's no seasons as I can wear the same clothes all year plus when I wake up I know whether it's time to get up or not by whether it's light.

provisions for children are ground down...depends on area?

Not totally sure what this means but I can tell you that the provisions for children are better everywhere I have been in the UK than everywhere I have been in Malaysia - cleaner, better maintained, safer. Plus without the searing heat and mosquitos. It's an easy win for the UK!

We've just moved back from Copenhagen . I would like the cleanliness, safeness and political system of Denmark , saw very little disorder etc - if I could have my friends on Tap, an M&S , a Boots (Dane's don't go for medicating) and flight costs back to UK at the prices and frequency of 5 years ago- and no Brexit to complicate living there (and it has)

I understand this dilemma because I have been an expat since the age of 4 ( I am not British). Nowhere is home and everywhere is home. I love almost everything about the UK except the ridiculous expense of life here, tiny housing and mediocre food ( in comparison to Asia) I agree the provisions for children are much better in the UK. Ditto the great cultural opportunities, heritage, museums, parks.... I don''t mind the weather either.

But I expect to eventually return to my home country because it is so much cheaper to retire in, and I can afford a nice house plus private medical care plus cleaner plus eating out with great, cheap food. And my mum is getting older...

You can't have it all sadly.

You are choosing between two very different lives, for yourself and your dc. Either one would likely serve your dc well. I don't know about your work situation - better in the UK or Malaysia?

Which life do you want?

Hate the phrase but I'm a third culture kid, don't think I'll truly settle anywhere now.

I've lived in Montreal, fab in summer and great university, utter misery in winter. Barcelona, lovely place to live but not so good job-wise.
Austin, Texas - gun-mad but good career-wise.
London - great for everything except pollution, house prices and raising children.

I've settled for rural England with fast train to London when needed. 😊Friendly, good school, clean air, decent house, very very green. I wake up to the dawn chorus.

I think living abroad can do this for you, OP. It leaves you somewhat dissatisfied with anywhere you might live because everywhere has pros and cons.

As to where I'd pick, it's a very personal decision. I love Malaysia and can totally see the attraction of staying there, but I also think there would be advantages to coming home.

We decided to come home to the UK before having dd (well, it was home for me, but the country where we were living before that wasn't home for either me or DH). There were lots of reasons for that decision, but the main ones were wanting to be near at least one set of grandparents (and I have really, really valued that) as well as extended family, cousins etc. Not wanting dd to feel like she was a foreigner everywhere - and she would always have been regarded as an outsider in the country where we were living even if she had been born there. Wanting dd to go through the UK education system rather than the one of the country where we were living. Wanting her to have the option of going to university in the UK without having to pay international student fees (dependent on residence and not nationality). And wanting to be around for my parents as they got older.

I do really miss where we used to live, lots of things were just better. Overall, though, I have no regrets at all about our decision to come back.

I too have lived abroad. I do not think a lot of British parents realise how good provisions are for children in this country. All the comments about the UK being child unfriendly do not reflect my experience.
Only thing I really miss is the food culture, especially for children. Britain is so poor in terms of food culture and appropriate food to feed children. And the lack of independence for children in Britain. But a lot is a lot better.

Medical care. Perhaps you are not at the age that you are likely to need it, but boy, does that make a difference in later life.I can get fantastic private health care for less than £.10 for a consultation in my home country. Here, I would wait 8 months for an NHS appointment or bankrupt myself if I went private.

I think that's a very common feeling. And while there are so many positives about exposure to different cultures in those early years, I didn't want Mt dd to grow up without feeling that she had roots somewhere.

@LobeliaBaggins one of the things I love about the UK is free medical care and far better preventative care. But it depends on the country and on your own family income where is best.

The free medical care is great and yes, I am comparing apples to oranges. BUT the fact is I need to see a specialist and the NHS has offered me an appointment 8 months from now.

But to counter thus, I'm also a third culture kid and it's resulted in me feeling at home nearly anywhere I lay my head. I very quickly feel settled anywhere.

What does the future hold for your children if they spend the rest of their lives in Malaysia? If they grow up there and are educated there, they may end up there forever. You can’t know which jobs they will have in Malaysia or the UK. If they don’t end up with a job that affords the same privileges as your household has now, which country provides a better life?

Yes I totally forgot healthcare and food! Malaysia is the winner for both of those. I think when I am older and retired Malaysia would be much more attractive (though I'm sure it will have changed a lot in 40 years time).

@Crikeyalmighty omg flights! We've just started travelling again post covid and plus two kids and it is cripplingly expensive!

@RubricEnemy despite all the positives of Malaysia, I think it's still the UK that I want. Work wise I don't work here since having kids. In the UK it would be a lot easier for me to work.

Yeah, I completely get that too. There are pros and cons for sure.

Years ago, I was lucky enough to get some research funding to do a project on third culture kids, and it was absolutely fascinating.

I've tried, as far as possible, to give dd extensive exposure to different cultures and countries while also giving her a firm sense of roots and belonging. For me, that was the best balance that we could strike, but everyone will have different views on this.

@Kinsters at one point Dh and I wanted to invest in the MMH2 retirement programme in Malaysia ( we have lived in SE Asia before and loved it) but they have made it too expensive now. Pah.

If you can't work in Malaysia, I would return to the UK immediately before you spend too long out of the workplace. I have a chequered work history because of all the moves and I do regret that bit of expat life.

We had the opportunity to live in New Zealand. We took a week to decide, while the job offer was open, then declined.
So utterly thankful for that. Nice place and all but a bit devoid of history and culture.
And such a lot way from anywhere.
Rather like Dorset though far easier to get to. Does have some dramatic landscapes, similar to those in Europe without the 42 hours travel door to door.
My experience of the NHS is brilliant. Cannot fault the care I received.

Yes, they've totally ruined MM2H - a lot of people very upset about it. There is still the Sarawak MM2H which is cheaper (you can live anywhere in Malaysia and just have to spend a couple of weeks in Sarawak per year). There would always be that concern of them moving the goal posts again though.

I can work here but yes, my work is another consideration as it's easier in the UK without the language barrier etc. I've been very fortunate and do actually have a small side job which gives me some CV continuity at least.

I lived in KL when my DC were primary age, and only returned to the U.K. for work reasons. Malaysia was head and shoulders above the U.K. for healthcare, education, ease of travel to great places, quality of life etc and we loved it there. None of us really settled back into life in the U.K. wholeheartedly, despite all our extended family being there, and now as adults, both DC live in SE Asia and we live and work in KSA.

@purpleleotard2 I have family living in New Zealand and have gone to visit them. Fun as a tourist but it did not appeal to me to live there. The areas where the scenery is beautiful, are not the areas where you can get much work.

oh yes @Kinsters thanks, I am aware of the Sarawak scheme but am just a bit wary of it now. The pandemic has really changed a lot of things for me, and I am not keen on risk.

I do think the UK has so much wonderful history and culture that it makes up for a LOT. It all depends on how you define quality of life, and seeing a great play in the West End or beautiful dance in Sadlers Wells is a fantastic life changing experience ( for me at least). DS at least would like to stay and work here and I hope he can. London is a great place for a young person,if you are willing to houseshare and cut expenses( he is).

Did you not find the heat oppressive? I grew up spending quite a lot of time outdoors but when I'm carting toddler and baby to the park or basically anywhere that isn't indoors the heat is just overwhelmingly unpleasant. I find myself wanting to leave places early because of the heat or the mosquitos (or both!). Maybe I'd feel the same in the UK but with wind and rain. I do strongly believe you can dress for UK weather though and it's actually kind of nice to get inside, take off your coat and flop down on the sofa when it's cold out - not so nice to get inside and flop down on the sofa here when you're sticky with sweat, suncream and mosquito spray! Sorry that was a rant, I just hate the weather here so much

(disclaimer: we spent the two weeks just gone in the UK and it was glorious sunshine with a cool breeze so I am definitely looking at the UK with rose tinted glasses right now! I never feel quite so enamoured with the UK weather when we get back after visiting for Christmas 😂 although actually I haven't spent Christmas with kids in the UK, thanks covid).

I wish I could mash the two together - ha! Yes - this is exactly how I feel.

It sounds like most of the upsides to Malaysia though are cost of living related. Most other things you seem to prefer about the UK. So maybe you would be happier in the UK with a better paid job? Could that be something you/DH could look into possible ways of making happen?

I live in Germany and the things I miss about the UK are being able to spontaneously/often visit family, the UK shops, and being able to speak English without even thinking about it. Everything else is better here. So I realised from that that I need to get my German to a level where I'm more comfortable speaking it, and ideally we need to have enough money as a family to enable 2+ trips home per year and then I'm happy.