Living abroad sucks aka now I'm not satisfied anywhere

[Kinsters]

We've lived in Malaysia for almost 7 years and now we've got two small children we're thinking about when we might move back to the UK. I've realised that I won't be totally happy in either place and wish I could mash the two together. Which would you pick to live in? Or what do you love about somewhere else in the world that you wish you could bring to the UK?

UK pros = family and friends, the weather (yes it is often rainy and a bit cold but it's so mild I feel like you can dress for it. There's no dressing for 30° heat and 90% humidity), the provisions for children are so much better - parks, museums, softplay, farms also everyone speaks English so it's easier to connect with people.

Malaysia pros = it's so cheap we can afford a nice house and a live in nanny/cleaner to help out, eating out is cheap, petrol is cheap, basically everything that's not imported is cheap, we live in a lovely neighbourhood with really nice neighbours, DH has a very secure job that pays fine, weirdly I like that there's no seasons as I can wear the same clothes all year plus when I wake up I know whether it's time to get up or not by whether it's light.

Oxfordshire. It’s great for families. We also loved living in the Cotswolds.
Other places are just as good!
I don’t recognise the negatives lots of people post on here at all. I have travelled the world, lived in several countries. Nowhere is perfect but it’s real here, not fake. It’s honest, decent and warm hearted. It’s Harry Potter, Mary Berry, the Queen, rolling fields and bluebells, incredible history and it’s a great place to live.
I guess your quality of life depends on where you choose to live. A hell hole on the wrong side of London probably doesn’t reflect the refinement, beauty and opportunity available elsewhere in the U.K..…

We lived 10 years in Singapore and I identify with a lot of what you say - I was very happy there. We moved back more than 20 years ago but still have links because my DH is Singaporean and has a big family there. This helps me to feel I still "belong" there in some way

I am originally from Malaysia (Malaysian Indian). IME, UK schools are better and particularly UK universities. I miss the food, the great people, the wildlife and the weather (January and February in the UK are the hardest). In my future I would spend a few months each year in Malaysia, but the UK would be home predominantly.

I'd think about what you think would be best for your kids in the long run.
Also where exactly would you like in the UK? Some of the comments above won't necessarily apply.

@Kinsters I've lived all over southern uk, we are currently in Windsor- partly because we couldn't get a decent rental house in Guildford or Bath at the point we needed to give notice . (Our first choices) I don't think you can go wrong around Guildford or Godalming if you want to be closeish to London. It's not fared nearly as bad as other places I've been too- huge mix of housing stock and still has a very nice vibe. Good shopping, lovely leisure centre and easy to get to lots of other places

Does it have to be either Malaysia or the UK? I'm just wondering if it's the weather you're struggling with, would there be any possibility of moving to somewhere like say Hanoi (for example), where you could have many of the same advantages in terms of cost of living and good food etc but it's not completely sweltering all year round? Obviously doesn't help with missing your family and friends, though.

I'm not one of those people who's always really down on the UK, in fact I usually love living here and think a lot of people take what we have in this country for granted, but I have to agree with the people saying it might be better to give it a few years if you have the option. Things just aren't feeling very nice here at the moment - lots of uncertainty about the future, cost of everything spiralling, war in Europe (not that I think that's likely to affect the average person in the UK directly, but it's not exactly improving the national mood) and lots of people feeling generally depressed after the pandemic, though I realise the last part might be the same the world over. For the first time in my life I'm thinking about emigration seriously, rather than as a vague 'maybe one day'. Out of the whole last fifteen years or so, besides the height of covid, this feels like just about the least appealing time to move to this country if I'm honest.

I've lived in Iceland for a bit over a decade now and while there are a few things I miss about the UK, I get really bad gut feelings if I think about living there. I sort of feel like I'm well out of it, although obviously we have our own problems here as well.

I do love the English countryside where I grew up, the mild climate, the flora and fauna. I love country pubs and the variety of food and drink that you can get and it is nice to be somewhere where my accent isn't foreign.

But I have always felt that Iceland was where I belonged. Hard to explain but I had the strongest pull towards the country from the moment I first visited. I see the childhood my kids are having and I think they're so lucky. The freedom my 7 year old has would make people call social services in the UK.

I wouldn't say I'd never live in the UK again, because I don't know what the future holds. But for me right now it's not even a contest. I suppose it helps that it's only a 3 hour flight to England and the cultural differences are not enormous. Probably also that I emigrated straight after university so it's been my whole 'proper' adult life. I didn't have the chance to get used to being an adult in the UK. I don't even know how a lot of things work there.

Id add that I am getting really tired of paying a LOT of tax for... what in return? I had to go private for my ongoing chronic health condition because the NHS care was downright scary. The leisure services that are important to me (swimming, mostly) are unbelievably expensive for a crap pool with a dated plant/facilities and never EVER any decent lane lines. Everything else is getting stupidly expensive and wages are not great/not rising. And I refuse to invest money in a flat here (and yes, it would have to be a flat - see chronic condition above) when for the same downpayment and lower cost to income ratio I could get a detached home that suits my needs better in my home country.

I dislike this sense that everyone should be 'grateful' for what they receive/have, no matter how shit it is. No, they shouldn't. They should be challenging why it can't be better. Instead of being jealous of what others have, why not demand better for everyone? But, that costs money - where is the UK going to get money from in the future? What does the country physically produce or compete effectively in services labour? All the housing market craziness - that is dead money, money that won't be used to start new businesses, grow others, or even used for disposable income to enjoy said new businesses.

Ive travelled and lived in the UK on and off over the last 25 years and all that inventiveness, fun and culture/history which made it such a unique place seems to have dissipated.

Where do you want your children to feel rooted?

Grow up Malaysian, British, or Expat?

Will they grow up as fluent speakers of the language? Be needing to translate for you as they and you grow older / old?

Go to International Schools with a constantly shifting population or be taught in the language?

I lived and worked in a range of countries before having kids but loved raising my kids in London.

@Puffinshop whereabouts in Iceland do you live? I had the same feeling when I first visited and would love to move there one day, but the cost of everything puts me off for now.

Don't move back to the UK. You will quickly miss all the things you have in Asia. Enjoy your life there. We have just moved here and I can't wait to move somewhere else.

I know how you feel OP. I'm from Germany but have lived the majority of my adult life in the UK, with a stint in the US in between.

One of my favourite poems on the subject of belonging (or not) is by Philip Larkin

The Importance Of Elsewhere

Lonely in Ireland, since it was not home,
Strangeness made sense. The salt rebuff of speech,
Insisting so on difference, made me welcome:
Once that was recognised, we were in touch

Their draughty streets, end-on to hills, the faint
Archaic smell of dockland, like a stable,
The herring-hawker's cry, dwindling, went
To prove me separate, not unworkable.

Living in England has no such excuse:
These are my customs and establishments
It would be much more serious to refuse.
Here no elsewhere underwrites my existence.

@CocktailNapkin I couldn't agree more having just come back from Denmark (work and family reasons) to come back) - people talk about the high tax, but when you add it up there is little difference-,they don't pay NI, don't pay council tax and if you have young children childcare is 1/4 of UKs plus wages are around times and a half more. In the Uk you are actually getting little for your money partly because the amount of money going into paying housing benefit, tax credits and other such things is so high due to unaffordable housing costs in many parts of the country and a great many people who are quite happy to just 'get by' by doing fuck all - (and I am not a Tory) - the idea of be thankful we've got mild weather and nice scenery -- well so does Germany , Denmark did too , a bit more snow, a lot more sun in summer. In the 5 weeks we've been back we've had our car back window smashed and stuff stolen from boot and my H had to visit A&E which he described as totally grim and grubby . Maybe if you live in a lovely village in Oxfordshire or Suffolk and own your house from years ago you are in your own bubble, but get out there and you will realise that large parts of the country are not good and people now have the 'mustn't grumble' mentality- when really they are being very short changed. It doesn't help when you have a totally pointless Brexit and a government with no morals or imagination , determined to pander to xenophobia and feed absolute falsehoods. The lovely police guy apologised to my H about not being able to do much about his car break in- he admitted they are seriously undermanned both in police and in civilian staff.

Which ever you do, and frankly I am not sure I would rush back to the U.K. at the moment , life is grim at times, make sure you think about the next stage of your dc’s lives and that they can see out their education once they get to about 13.

I grew up abroad but was sent home to board, which was horrible in some ways ( and was the norm then) but did mean that I was fully grounded in the U.K. but also had the advantages of another culture. We currently have my sibling’s dd staying with us. They have grown up abroad with parents from the U.K. and the US. In many ways I have been envious of their opportunities over the years but not now . It’s hard very hard, she went to the US for a bit but doesn’t feel at home there , has now spent 6 months here and doesn’t like here either. She is going to uni in another country again because they can’t afford overseas fees here and the US is too far from ‘home’ and also expensive. She is desperately homesick for family and siblings and the life she had but cannot go back realistically as is not allowed to work there and the university level education is not really adequate and she is not allowed anyway because she is not a ‘national’.

Also she is very envious of my dc circle of friends , I felt sad the other day when she told me she was good at meeting people because every school year there were lots of new people but that it was important not to rely on them because they were always gone in a couple of years. This was when talking about how hard she is finding making friends at work . She talks endlessly about how important it is to self sufficient. She also finds the concept of extended family quite odd, which is interesting, it’s almost like her grandparents are alien creatures , she is fond of them but has no experience of the ‘warp and weft’ of community ties because as a family overseas they have only had only themselves to rely on.

my sibling is also missing her dreadfully but has two other children at home, she is also facing the fact that she and her husband could in five years be out there on their own with the children scattered, one us already keen on getting a sports scholarship in the US, the other may head to Europe . They have a business there so cannot easily come home and anyway where is ‘home’. The last 12 months have really opened my eyes to the downsides of expat life and the ‘trailing spouse’

Basically in Reykjavík, though it's actually a different municipality. I was 17 when I first visited and moved at 22. I've always been in the capital area, wouldn't want to live in a small town.

@CocktailNapkin you are spot on.

Hermione101 please just leave now! What are you waiting for?
You are incredibly rude and ill mannered. It is very impolite to run down other people’s countries - I’m sure your vacuous life in Canada suits you perfectly, somehow the beauty and history of England is totally lost on you - and to be honest given the total absence of manners it doesn’t surprise me in the least that you haven’t managed to fit in here. Off you pop. Heathrow is that way >>>>

@Provenceinthesummer . Sorry I think it's you being rude . you have already said you live in some friendly idyllic village in Oxfordshire. Lots of people don't have that option for many reasons, cost, work etc. maybe if you visited some less thrilling places and areas around the UK ( and they are all over) then you might understand why some people feel as they do. It might not be so easy just to 'off you pop' - there may be work reasons why people are here. I enjoyed living in Denmark, didn't stop me saying the cyclists coming at you from everywhere with no road sense were a pain in the arse, and the lack of service (due to high pay and a short hours culture) sucked in parts- and lots of expats there felt the same as I did. It's not so straightforward as you said about thinking positive and spending your time popping to beaches, museums and forests and country parks- it really depends where you live, whether you have good transport , a car, or spare money for very high train fares etc- you might have kids to pay for and no car. You are simply thinking of the UK through your own probably quite priviledged perspective . The UK can be a great place if you've got private health, housing in a 'naice' area, a good car, well paid work , pensions to fall back on etc - a visitor or short term resident is just being honest as to how they see it-

Oh and Canada is rather beautiful too in many areas - my H tells me it's the best food he has had in the world- he rated it incredibly highly and strangely Toronto often features as one of the top cities in the world.

oh do shut up and learn to use paragraphs ffs

oh do shut up and learn to use paragraphs ffs

Yup. That was rude. And if you're going to have a go at someone for not using paragraphs, howsabout using them there capital letters and fullstops?

The bleating is exhausting - and full stops are aggressive

Anyone that moans about the U.K. but helps themselves to our services and opportunities, can leave - preferably as soon as possible given the long long queue of many hundreds of thousands wishing to take their place.
We don’t need misery angst riddled doomsters thanks all the same.

Excuse me? I pay my taxes ( and a lot of them frankly, and I would pay more ) and I’ll complain out the services as I see fit. A previous poster was correct, we get very poor value for money in this country and things don’t improve by just putting up with them. Why should we be grateful when things don’t work or you can’t get a medical appointment or replace your passport etc etc. and those are just the superficial things. You don’t make things better by leaving , you fight for improvements and for those less fortunate than yourself.

anyway this is derailing the thread and doesn’t in anyway help the OP.

Nah, its not doomsters. Its reality. You cannot solve the political and economic and social timebombs about to go off with some pretty beaches and a few visits to stately homes. You can do all those activities in just about any country on the planet, its not unique to Britain. Im sorry for wanting more than a few visits to a museum during the year, or sitting in a deck chair watching Wimbledon and drinking Pimms. Those don't pay my bills, they don't pay for my healthcare, and I cant buy a home with them. Fun to do on the side? Sure, but gotta work, gotta pay the landlord, gotta pay for food and bills that have all gone up extensively and are squeezing what income I have after paying 40% in income tax. Everything is just... stagnant. There is no up, there is only down from here.

My great uncle looked at me like I was insane when I told him in 2013 we were going to move to the UK for a few years because it was something we always wanted to do. He was posted here in the war and never forgot the utter, total poverty he witnessed. We assured him it was totally different now but guess we were wrong.