Middle class indicators 2022 part 2

[Pullandpush]

Current thread has 1000 posts so restarting.. Was asked at the end of the last thread what I would identify as & I am solidly working class due to working hard to pay our mortgage, kids in state school & having a very modest lifestyle.

On the socio economic grading scale it would have teachers as probably being lower middle, but then it is just a basic guide.

Not what you asked but if she's prioritising weekends away and designer clothes over her children's material needs then that's something else entirely. In my opinion .

Friend of a friend at university said I'd find it easier than them to get a teaching job as I had a neutral accent. I don't think that's true, personally, though I'm not a teacher.

If teachers are LMC, where would you put university lecturers? Would they also count a LMC or MMC?

I'm beginning to wonder whether it really matters though, and that there are lots of different tribes that don't necessarily fit into traditional class stereotypes.

And who is to say that one person's view of what is MC is more valid than another's? And again, the types of wooden/sunk into ground children's garden equipment are more related to wealth than class, surely?

The type of people who (self) consciously have an identikit MC lifestyle with all those apparent trappings that come with the territory are likely 'try-too-hards'!

I don't know! In my opinion not all teachers will be lower mc, some will be working class, middle or upper. Lots of factors at play, the school, the level, even their own background etc etc etc

University lecturers would be higher wouldn't they

I'm not sure either as her job is quite vague & he's an adventurer /TV personality...they moved out of London to be in the countryside so wouldn't class them as globally elite London mc.. I think they are quintessentially British if that's a class but then millions of us would fit in there!

I see this so much on MN.

Whenever there are 2 fathers it’s always specified and duly noted, mostly completely unrelated to a post. There’s a very deep level of misogyny going on here and mostly spouted by women.

Same with being a single mother, which can be relevant sometimes but definitely not in this case.

@palygold , is George Bernard Shaw, Pygmalion. "It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him"

That's the one! @newnamethanks

@Tillsforthrills it was relevant in this case as that means it's a single household income rather than a double household income

Was the part about two different fathers for her children relevant too?

@Tillsforthrills I should have given more info on that point - the first day doesn't pay and the second one gives some money but not much. Again, related to income and financial position, so yes, relevant

Ben Fs father is a vet turned farmer, his mother an actor as we now say. Dad's Canadian. Does that alter anything classwise?

@sunja we are the other way round. My mum is MC and never irons anything, to the point where she has no iron or board now (it was only used for school uniform). My MIL is from a long line of WC iron everything women. I am in awe of her ability to iron (and clean a house). She is like a machine.

I disagree and find that explanation ridiculous.

Mentioning children from two different fathers wouldn’t be relevant in a class debate. Why mention it at all, maintenance payments from two different fathers, unless millionaires, will hardly impact a woman’s social class.

Hardly a genuine ‘income’ reason is it.

Nice try though.

Ben Fogel and his wife are excellent examples of how you can be incredibly mediocre and yet succeed if you are middle- class blondies.

if you don’t feel Mc, Ben snd his other half will not get you there - you’ll be so bloody dull with your MC try hard rules, society will leave you behind. Do what you want to do, I really hope that is how most of us do it. Society needs to progress.

The Fogles are definitely hard to class though

The Fogles are hard to class. Really?

I don’t think they’re hard to class at all. Ben is from a pretty standard Hampsteady upper-middle-class background, going by parents’ professions, his schools, gap years, his first job at Tatler etc, and while I know nothing about what his wife does, her own background is similar — from a family of high-achieving Establishment medics with a lot of high-end public service — and one of her sisters used to go out with Prince William.

I mean, look at Ben Fogle — he couldn’t look or sound any more solidly upper-end-of-upper-middle!

OP you seem hell bent on wealth being an indicator of class. This in itself seems to suggest you are not of the middle class.
If you have to ask…… as the saying goes.
The USA have a class system based on wealth, the British are much more fickle.
A classless society is what we should be working towards. Not a redefinition of the boundaries. Perhaps if we all worked on inclusivity rather than trying to pigeon hole ourselves the world would be a better place.

Yes, I would entirely concur that the Fogles are UMC. They both have professional fathers (vet and doctor) and clearly come from comfortably off backgrounds going back a few generations at the least.

Not hard to class the fogles - upper middle class posh people.

Yes but neither Ben & Marina have emulated their parents professions so where does that leave them?

It doesn’t change their social class, regardless of what they do for a living, though. They’re still the products of what appears to be at least a couple of generations of highly-educated, comfortably-off professionals with a strong record of public service and links to the establishment, and of their own upbringing, education etc.

Have only skim read a couple of pages from the end. The idea that only working class people - women?! - iron clothing is most amusing but probably spot on.

Middle class people are more concerned with fabric quality than with ironing. Because lots of linen is popular, ironing that to the nth degree would be a chore…!

Having a surfeit of money does not make you upper class or even middle class. That betrays a lack of understanding about class. Lottery winners are hardly middle class, far less upper class. Some of them will actually have been underclass.

What determines your “higher level / class” credentials is whether you come from a professional background, whether you have a profession, whether you are properly educated, whether you value theatre, books and so on. Or not.

This is an updated version of Nancy Mitford’s U and Non U categories. It’s meant to be entertaining!

NEW-U

• Eating bread
• Having a job
• Drinking at lunch
• Talking real estate
• Champagne
• Loving your parents
• Buying newspapers
• Eating sweets
• Politeness
• Tokyo
• Having a driver
• Turning at a dinner party
• Being faithful
• Audiobooks
• Having a much older best friend
• Reading books
• Astrology
• Afternoon Tea
• Fried eggs
• Sweden
• Knowing about plants
• Nicknames
• Asking questions during a conversation
• Saying no NON–U
• Dietary requirements
• The word ‘posh’
• Public displays of abstinence
• Mouthwash
• Most white wine
• Being friends with your parents
• Facebook
• Elaborate gin and tonics
• Talking about yourself
• Tissues
• The South-East
• France (except Paris)
• Wearing make-up outside the city
• Dips
• Trophy spouses
• Tinder
• Social climbing
• iPads
• Supplements
• Soho Farmhouse
• Air freshener
• Fruit in plastic
• Knowing about yachts
• Three-day weddings in India
• Atheisure wear
• Wet wipes
• Saying, ‘I’m all right thanks’ when offered a drink