Middle class indicators 2022 part 2

[Pullandpush]

Current thread has 1000 posts so restarting.. Was asked at the end of the last thread what I would identify as & I am solidly working class due to working hard to pay our mortgage, kids in state school & having a very modest lifestyle.

@TheDuchessOfMN agree with this. But what about those trampolines that are built into the ground? I've only seen those on property shows like escape to the country and grand designs!

I disagree the MC adults might not like them but their kids do! And the kids get what they want - eventually 😂

I’m referring to trampolines and playhouses - haven’t seen so much of the fake grass - friend in San Francisco has it and where there’s drought and extreme water shortages - you adapt your thinking.

Tell me more! This is the tribe that has the lifestyle I described upthread & the normal British Middle class comes nowhere near this! This to me is middle class. The travel, unlimited money, cultural & social capital.
But this class is usually not aristocratic so can't refer to them as upper class!

@sunja I would say that trampolines that are dug into the ground, are acceptable.

Basically, nothing unsightly

@Pullandpush Ooh I wouldn’t say money is unlimited! We’re definitely middle class I’d say, just very mobile.

It probably describes us.

We have fake grass in the garden of our main London home, as it’s North facing and behind a tall townhouse. Our neighbours have all done the same.

@Pullandpush I’d probably describe that group as global elite. Not to be confused with the BBC class survey categories though which labelled me as elite and I definitely don’t have unlimited money! I have worked abroad but only in Europe.

I think that’s fantasy, rather than reality.

@CompoundV how so?

I don’t profess to be an expert on MC gardens - all I can say is I live in one of the most MC areas in the SE - everyone I know has/had s trampoline whilst our kids grew up together, none of them were countersunk and there are/was plenty of plastic shit in the gardens too.

I have 5 neighbours within earshot with trampolines - everyone one of their houses is worth £1.5million plus. No one has beautifully sculptured Chelsea Flower Show gardens - they have plastic sand pits, climbing frames, paddling pools and other eyesores that their kids absolutely love and when the kids are done they will get rid - that’s what’s very normal in very comfortable MC land (and probably also for anyone else who has small kids and a garden big enough) - not the fantasy land of anything as long as it looks beautiful that’s how so!

I started following Ben Fogle's wife on Insta off the back of this thread and she does have a really classy look and mannerisms about her.

Yes I would love her life (& wardrobe & hair!!!)

I agree, and I like her wardrobe. Though I'm not interested in horses, which feature a lot.

Love the country lifestyle, wouldn't be a horsey person myself but the Fogle kids seem to living the dream for sure!

How do people tend to define the class of someone who has a middle class job but a WC lifestyle?

E.g. a lady I know who is a single mother. Comes from a WC background. She is now a teacher. She has 4 children, single mum. Never married, 2 different fathers. However, she stayed at her mums with her children as long as possible to save to buy a house (which is in a bad area - her words not mine. The type of area where people leave their old furniture outside on the pavement). I wouldn't say she prioritises education for her children, music lessons etc as she says it's expensive as a single mother. However, she does spend a lot on weekends away with her friends, designer clothes and shoes (louboutins, Gucci, YSL) for herself and the children.

By virtue of her job I imagine most people would say LMC. But what about her lifestyle?

@palygold @CompoundV @Chaoslatte @ivykaty44 @hilblaudh878 @Octomore would love to hear your thoughts.

Pretty sure I've already made clear that I don't think it's "lifestyle" or hobbies that define someone's class. It's about level of access to power, money and social capital, and a skint teacher doesn't really have much of those things.

I'm pretty shocked that you think being a single mum is relevant to demonstrating that she has a "WC lifestyle". Do you think that being unmarried or having children by two fathers is a "WC lifestyle"? Plenty of MC blended families and single mums would beg to differ....

Or go for the springless trampoline very middle class and very safe actually!

I agree.

Some of these comments are based on fantasy stereotypes rather than reality.

How do I define her class? - I don't, why would I want to, I have literally no interest but you what's your angle in this? I think you might be a bit over-invested in categorising people and I'm not convinced it's a healthy obsession. Either that or you are a journo trying to find a story. Concentrate on your career and save your judgments - at least till you have kids and understand a little bit more about what it involves - big hint - more than music lessons!!! We all do the best for our kids with what we've got - you don't know what goes on in her head, how she copes with the responsibility of being a single mother to 4 kids. If her kids are happy and loved butt out, if not offer to help and support her, your judgment is not helpful.

@Octomore I don't think that at all, seeing as my own mum was a single teacher raising me and my sibling. I was just giving context to the scenario

There's a topic on lbc radio at the moment in which MC James O'Brien is asking why MC broadcasters like him are surprised that WC Mick Lynch of the RMT is an eloquent, informed and engaged interviewee who is well able to defend his political views and engage in reasonable debate. That question is class writ large. It permeates every level of society in this country and we silently stratisfy people, maybe unknowingly, every time someone else opens their mouth to speak.

There's a famous quote saying as much. If anyone else can remember it?

I forgot to include the part post I was referring to.

That question is class writ large. It permeates every level of society in this country and we silently stratisfy people, maybe unknowingly, every time someone else opens their mouth to speak.

I agree with this - part of the way class discrimination works is that people are categorised and dismissed based on stereotypes (e.g. that WC people are uneducated, don't read books etc.)