Ukraine Invasion: Part 27

[MagicFox]

27th thread, thanks for the continued company and analysis all

A bill to repeal resolution "On Recognition of the Independence of the Republic of Lithuania" was submitted to Russian State Duma

Ooof, that's not good

I will keep saying this. It not about NATO. Its about the right to self determination by an imperialism colonist nation that seems to impose its centralised will on others against their will. Its problem is fundamentally democracy and the will of the people. Zelensky did a sitcom on the subject. Thats what its about - corruption and absolution of power on the people. Not NATO. Not Nazis.

Anyone who says the contrary doesn't get it and in most cases is either far right or far left in nature and want to impose their views on others unilaterally in some way or just have their heads buried in the sand and want it to all just go away rather than face up to it. There are no exceptions.

Well said RedToothbrush.

Interesting. Some of the tectonic plates are moving

Ukraine NOW [English], [08/06/2022 17:10]
[ Photo ]
⚡️Japan and NATO will strengthen military cooperation due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine – Japan Today

(japantoday.com/category/politics/japan-nato-step-up-ties-amid-russia's-invasion-of-ukraine)Representatives of Japan and NATO agreed to intensify military cooperation and joint exercises due to fears that Russia's invasion of Ukraine poses serious security risks in Europe and Asia. It is reported by Japan Today.

Japanese Defense Minister Nobuo Kishi, during a meeting with the head of the NATO Military Committee, Robert Bauer, announced the hope of the state to strengthen ties with European countries. He also welcomed the expansion of NATO's presence in the Indo-Pacific region, the newspaper reports.

Breaking International law makes you a risk to deal with.

Some are more open and honest about this than others.

Others will continue to take the risk because they either see the possible gains as a worthwhile gamble or because they feel they have no other choice.

Thats what the west needs to watch.

Apologies as this question might be considered somewhat off-topic.

I'm an American and am very pleased that the US and UK governments are really going all-in to support Ukraine in resisting this horrific invasion. If anything, I have been a bit surprised by the level of public support in both countries. I have wondered if one factor driving that support in the UK is Russia's odious history of assassinating its defectors living in the UK using never agents and other poisons. Not only is this a terrible violation of British sovereignty, but it also puts the public at risk and has killed or injured other, unrelated people. Has public outrage over these incidents contributed to a consensus that Russia has destroyed any goodwill or sympathy it might have in the UK? They certainly haven't made many friends.

It strikes me as a case of unintended consequences coming back to bite them on the arse.

Agree. The far right and far left seem to have the same (wrong) opinion on this, that its all about NATO and its NATO's fault. So fucking frustrating when arguing with some lefty bros about this and they think they're just so much more intelligent that they realise the "real truth" about this. Urgh.

@MissConductUS - I wouldn't say that the poisonings had any particular impact on outrage or destroying goodwill. They just added to the distrust that was already felt.

From a UK perspective, I'd say the key concern is that it's a European country, so a bit too close to home, added to concerns about the domino effect (or salami effect, which better describes Putin's approach) with other Eastern European countries at risk.

I know that certain groups consider that the greater outrage because it's a European country is racist. Where was/is our outrage at Afghanistan? At Yemen? At Syria? At Libya?

I can half see their point but the fact that it is closer to home and is a case of naked aggression and invasion (whatever Putin might claim about "liberating" Ukraine) makes it different to those conflicts which were a) further away and b) were in some cases civil war in which the US and/or NATO and/or Russia got involved for various reasons.

I'm not giving the UK and the US a free pass on wars they've been involved with . The 1st Iraq War was a consequence of the invasion of Kuwait and as such there was at least some justification but the 2nd Iraq War was just plain wrong (and as such I marched against it, along with millions of other) and was more to do with oil, the petrodollar and the interests of certain conglomerates than any real WMDs, which were a fig leaf of an excuse

Complaining that we are concerned about Ukraine while allowing other atrocities elsewhere in the world to continue is a bit like saying that we shouldn't be concerned about the house in the next street being on fire, which will damage much of the infrastructure in the community, because there are fires in the next county that also need dealing with Yes they need to be dealt with, but they're not the ones posing an immediate risk to our vicinity.

Not the best of analogies but the best I could think of at the moment

Interesting....following as perceived by an mainly expat Brit who spends some time in the UK and follows some UK MSM .

I think most of the mysterious deaths of individuals in the UK didn't register on most people's radars prior to Feb, and if mentioned in conversation at all it would be seen as a case of foreigners bumping off foreigners, private business etc.. so a bit of a shrug of the shoulders and ??? Maybe a bit of outrage occasionally especially if radioactivity was involved because Brits might end up as collateral damage but otherwise, again, shrug...

As I recall it the Salisbury nerve agent attack produced peak public outrage which lasted a few weeks....honour supposedly restored to some degree by the expulsion of some diplomats....

My cynical take on it overall is that some in HMG were not really interested in really rocking the boat with Moscow and were quite happy that the public weren't marching on the Russian Embassy.

As for the concept of sovereignty - isn't that a Brexit thing??.

Overall I really don't think it's a case of the UK general public thinking that support for Ukraine is payback for assassinations in the UK.

That's my slightly distant take on it, I'd be be really interested to hear the perceptions of those whose antenna are much more tuned into the political/social/media side of British life than mine are.

I'm not particularly well informed so wonder it someone could explain why three "mercenaries" are now on trial in DPR

they were fighting for the Ukrainians, defending against an invasion

So what basis do the Russians have for putting them on trial

I can't understand why it's ok to hire Wagner and to boast on twitter about a Serbian who is fighting for the Russians ( this was on a government tweet) but those who fight for Ukraine are criminals and why jurisdiction do the aggressors have

It just seems so illogical to me

Fuat
@lilygrutcher
·
19h
Russia withdraws from European Court of Human Rights.
Nothing human matches these Barbarians.

BBC News:

"A British former intelligence officer says he "doesn't see" Russian President Vladimir Putin being in power "three to six months from now".
Speaking to BBC Radio 4's World at One programme, Christopher Steele said that once Western sanctions on Russia - particularly energy measures - began to take full effect, Putin's days would be "numbered".
Pushed on his specific time scale, Steele, who authored the Trump-Russia dossier, pointed to "signs that [Putin's] health is failing". If US and UK sources are right, he said, the Russian leader could be "incapacitated" in that time."

Part of me finds this statement a relief and the other part has me nervous. I'd like to think that anyone would be better than Putin but I'm not sure that's the case.

@LoveLarry : I believe that either the Russians handed over the 2 Brits to the DNR or they were captured by the DNR Republic in the 1st place.

The DNR is not recognised internationally as a sovereign state and seems to have taken from that carte blanche that they therefore don't need to follow international law

Even though these two Brits were, I understand, properly employed by the Ukrainian Army and at least one of them has a Ukrainian partner, the DNR refuses to accept that and claims that they are mercenaries. As such, by the DNR's rules, they can be sentenced to death as they are not deemed to be POWs.

Sorry - autocarrot changed DPR to DNR

@MissConductUS · Today 17:02

I don’t know if I’m speaking for others, but how ever evil those poisonings were, or insidious the Russian infiltration of London on many levels, it was an absolute shock and betrayal that a huge and powerful country, that had basically seemed a welcomed part of Europe since the end of the Cold War, one so great in its art and literature, could so coolly assume the right to use its might to invade and brutalise a sovereign, European, neighbouring, democratic country.

The shock waves in Ukraine are running through all of Europe and Scandinavia. It seems clear there had only been a lull before Russia was going to resume violence and suppression wherever it could.
It got away with Crimea and east Ukraine but then had no intention of stopping there.

Now, with all eyes turned on it, the more the Russian State character reveals itself, the more repugnant it appears.

You ask about the poisonings in particular. Those outrageous crimes seemed to have been committed by Putin for his internal reasons on British territory but not enough attention was really paid to the implications. Russia as a whole was still for some reason given the benefit of the doubt. As for oligarchs, they were known to probably be corrupt but were on the other hand either Hello-magazine rich people or assumed to carry high Russian culture.

Suddenly we know Europe has been sleep-walking and complacent.

Ukrainians themselves meanwhile are a revelation. They are clearly an extraordinarily brave, creative and admirable people as well as being fellow Europeans. Zelensky has come across as a hero.

Fuat
@lilygrutcher
·
2h
Japanese jets scrambled to intercept 4 Russian warplanes over Hokkaido Island.

[So Russia is still confident enough to tweak the noses of the Japanese. ]

Ukraine NOW
@UkraineNowMedia
‼️Luhansk Regional Military Administration: More than 90% of the territory of the Luhansk region is temporarily occupied by Russia. Fighting continues in Sievierodonetsk, Lysychansk is completely under the control of the Ukrainian authorities.
7:15 PM · Jun 8, 2022·Twitter Web App

⚡️Huawei began to close its official stores in Russia

Four of the 19 stores have already closed, and the company plans to further reduce the number of official outlets.

Also, supplies are reduced by Xiaomi and Lenovo.

I wonder why. Sanctions or drops in sales or a whisper from the Chinese govt?

https://www.ftm.eu/articles/putins-lawyer-appointed-to-dutch-supreme-court
The undisputed appointment of Putin’s lawyer to Dutch Supreme Court

Six days before President Putin began his war in Ukraine, the Dutch cabinet appointed a Kremlin lawyer to the counsellor of the Supreme Court, the highest judicial body. Alexander van der Voort Maarschalk, who joined the Supreme Court last week, worked at the large law firm Houthoff, which counselled the Russian Federation during some controversial proceedings. The Tax department, where he was a partner, performed ‘extremely poorly’ in complying with legal regulations for the prevention of money laundering.

‘I am grateful to all Houthoffers for a wonderful time!’ At the end of May, on Linkedin, Alexander van der Voort Maarschalk announced, with a big smile, his departure from law firm Houthoff. The reason: his appointment to the office of counsellor in the tax chamber of the Supreme Court, where he started working on June 1st. The message just about went viral: over 800 likes and dozens of congratulations poured in.

Outside of Linkedin, more critical voices can also be heard. Prominent lawyers in the legal profession and academics have their doubts about his appointment. They wonder whether his appointment might damage the reputation of the Supreme Court and the rule of law.

This is because, for many years, Van der Voort Maarschalk was, as tax specialist and litigation lawyer, associated with the large law firm Houthoff. Due to its focus on Russian clients, this firm is also known as the ‘Kremlin on the Zuidas’ [a large business centre in Amsterdam, ed]. For example, the counsellor, who speaks fluent Russian, spent years advocating for the interests of the Russian Federation, in a controversial procedure involving oil company Yukos, now part of state-owned company Rosneft. ‘Alexander was always brought in, because he spoke Russian so well,’ says a former colleague. ‘Those Russians loved that.’

President Putin brutally expropriated Yukos, after which former owner Mikhail Khodorkovsky – a political opponent of Putin’s – ended up spending years in a penal camp. For Putin, it turned out to be an effective way to get Russian oligarchs under his thumb: anyone who makes trouble ends up in jail on suspicion of fraud and tax evasion. Since then, almost all power has shifted to Putin. Russia has long ceased to be a constitutional state with an independent judiciary.

‘The Yukos case is piracy,’ says Germ Kemper, lawyer and former dean of the Amsterdam Bar Association. ‘The international judgement [on the actions of the Russian Federation, ed.] is crushing. The European Court has already ruled that the Russian Federation has to pay almost two billion to the former shareholders of Yukos, for gross violation of norms.’

This did not deter the cabinet from agreeing to the appointment of Van der Voort Maarschalk. That happened on February 18th, six days prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which, thanks to the large-scale build-up of Russian troops on the Ukrainian border, had long been predicted by the Americans.

Soon, the Supreme Court will make a final decision on the 50 billion dollars in damages that the Russian Federation may have to pay the former shareholders of Yukos. Last November, a Houthoff team, which also included Van der Voort Maarschalk, put a stop to this at the Supreme Court. The highest court referred the case back to the Amsterdam court, but the matter will most likely then return to the Supreme Court for final settlement.

The verdict is a preliminary victory for Putin. However, the appointment of his lawyer to the Supreme Court is a permanent success. ‘The dictator [..] will probably see the success and prestige of his Dutch defenders as a reflection on him,’ law professor Diana de Wolff (UvA) wrote early March. ‘Imagine: your internationally acclaimed lawyer [Van der Voort Maarschalk, ed.] wins your case at the Supreme Court and is then appointed to said Supreme Court, a few months later. Whatever you, in all your unscrupulousness, may have done, must be okay.’

The story continues on the link.

I agree, the main thing is that he's managed to do the right thing for once in his life.

I thought Charles Michel was correct on Russia being the sole cause of blocking Ukrainian grain from being exported too, it's down to them alone.

It would be great if the rest of Europe could match Lithuania with ending dependence on Russian gas, hopefully one day they will be able to, although I'm not sure it will be easy as there is a lot of work to do between now and the winter.

Ukraine war: Lithuania reveals how it is breaking away from dependence on Russian energy

news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-lithuania-reveals-how-it-is-breaking-away-from-dependence-on-russian-energy-12622499

On Channel 4 news tonight reporters spoke to people from villages now liberated by Ukraine. A lot of the Russian soldiers who had been in the area, many committing atrocities, had been prisoners in the DPR before being put in the army.

I agree, the main thing is that he's managed to do the right thing for once in his life.

Fully for his own benefit though! So I just can't get behind him

So today I got a call from a friend who is hosting a lady from Ukraine. Her husband has just received his call up papers along with 5 other men in their village. They have all been told they have to buy their own kit, which they obviously cannot afford, and this includes a bullet proof vest and helmet. It's incredible to me that men will be sent to the frontline with or without the right gear on both sides. Obviously, I am helping these men but I felt quite depressed about the reality for many.

"Prisoners' - any idea whether they were criminals or political prisoners?

Is there any kind of fundraising to support this as I'd happily donate?

@blueshoes · Today 21:52

ScrollingLeaves
On Channel 4 news tonight reporters spoke to people from villages now liberated by Ukraine. A lot of the Russian soldiers who had been in the area, many committing atrocities, had been prisoners in the DPR before being put in the army.

"Prisoners' - any idea whether they were criminals or political prisoners?

Definitely the impression was criminals. A Ukrainian officer said people who were real trouble and people with ‘psychological’ problems by which I presume psycho types.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong strong · Today 21:38
So today I got a call from a friend who is hosting a lady from Ukraine. Her husband has just received his call up papers along with 5 other men in their village. They have all been told they have to buy their own kit, which they obviously cannot afford, and this includes a bullet proof vest and helmet. It's incredible to me that men will be sent to the frontline with or without the right gear on both sides. Obviously, I am helping these men but I felt quite depressed about the reality for many.

That certainly is depressing. Without a helmet and bullet proof vest the chances of being killed must go up massively. Do you know how much the basic kit costs?

Does it include night vision glasses, a proper radio and proper first aid kit? Probably not.

If they can’t be given proper long range missiles surely there would be nothing wrong in at least sending them all the protection if this kind they need?