The country is a shit show - why is there so little mention of Brexit's role?

[Neonskytonight]

That's it really.

Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?

I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit.

@Swayingpalmtrees Your own personal world may still be the same but try telling that to people whose companies have now relocated within EU or businesses who have shut or are thinking of shutting because their business doesn't make sense when exports are no longer viable because they deal in 'direct to consumer' there were an awful lot of cottage industries, many run by the kind of woman you get here on mumsnet for whom it can no longer work- there are shortages in many drugs/medicines due to delays/customs delays as most pharma is based in the EU, there are major staffing issues in many sectors. Fresh food with very short lives etc lorry drivers spending 20 hours in a cab just to cross etc. people talk about poor Eastern Europeans being exploited here, we have minimum wage, we are now about to allow immigration for a load of phillipinos and Indians - you tell me how that makes sense instead of say Polish ???

@UrsulaPandress not a better class, less gullible I feel to the Farages of the world -

but even brexiteers accepted there would be price increases etc.

They most emphatically did not. Such predictions were dismissed as Project Fear.

Agreed there is insufficient coverage in the press. And don't get me started on the press promoting all of this flag waving, nationalist, jubilee bullshit.

@Nutellanjam
Something that really brought this home to le was driving to Dover this weekend on the m20 for the first time in ages. Apologies if this has been mentioned and am sure many people have seen this regularly but when you hear the words lorry park, they didn’t -for me at least - conjure up what is now the reality. I’d naively imagined some @@ of a car park outside Dover
Instead It’s literally miles and miles of queues for lorry drivers. Then when you think it’s finished there’s more, then more, then more. It must be so grim now for them, it must be days waiting to get on a ferry

i couldn’t help wonder who on earth benefits from this ? Certainly not the drivers. Or the people impacted by the delay. And it’s obviously adding on costs to be absorbed by someone down the line. Is this really brexit in action

The lorry jams on the M20 are the most visible sign of a Brexit clusterfuck. How many people realise that these lorries were supposed to be hidden away in a large lorry park just outside Dover? Google the White Cliff inland border facility. 37ha proposed site on green fields not going through usual planning procedures but through a Special Development Order.

Only the Department of Transport (who led on the project) were unaware of - ironically - the European legislation embedded in our laws, preventing large scale development without scrutiny. When the DoT were tested on this (I may have been involved) , suddenly, plans all changed and a much smaller development proposed instead , without the large lorry park.

With nowhere to put the lorries when the 1st January 2020 deadline came!

Kent County Council, at the time were also very much in favour of the lorry park , presumably because they realised that they would have to implement Operation Stack if it didn’t go ahead.

I feel guilty about the lorry drivers affected by the lack of facilities (not that any were planned at White Cliffs) but that proposal was wrong and it was wrong to try and steam roll it through without proper scrutiny.

Semantics

I can remember quite clearly being made aware we wouldn't have cheap labour and therefore prices would rise because we were having to pay a living wage to workers. Do you think it's right to exploit overseas labour then?

Project fear was about decimation of our industries, banking and generalised disaster. None of which happened.

@MarshaBradyo I directed the comment at you because I see your name on many a thread about politics but have never witnessed you condemn this government. Even on the thread about dying towns, mainly in the north, you criticised Tony Blair's record, deflecting attention from the abysmal failures of this government. One of the few posters to do that...

@cottagegardenflower fishing ? Small businesses who trade with Europe ? Logistics ? Musicians ? Not decimated (yet) but damaged massively.

And how lucky I was to be at the end of your snide comment, rather than engaging with the points

Feel free to disagree, with lack of personal attack

In any case your assumptions were wrong. I voted Remain, I don’t need to defend Brexit as I didn’t vote for it, there are downsides which I listed but I think this thread is not the case. If it was solely Brexit there wouldn’t be shortages in many other countries - which I linked.

That doesn’t mean I wanted Brexit, voted for it or can’t see there are issues surrounding it.

Do you think it's right to exploit overseas labour then?

I was actually thinking about prices of food and the idea that we held all the cards. This was certainly the tenor of Rees-Mogg's remarks, who of course, made sure that some of his business was switched to the Republic of Ireland.

So you would like to see Philippinos and Indians exploited instead then, rather than Polish vets or Spanish nurses who can quickly jump on a plane to go back home? Is that what you are saying?

Or are you saying that it's time employers stepped up, stopped whining and started training and paying staff. Especially those large firms with CEOs paid silly salaries.

I don't want to see anyone exploited. I want workers to come in from any overseas country to fill vacancies and be adequately paid. Not sure what your problem is with that?

"That's it really.
Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?
I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit."
As a business owner myself Brexit has made no real difference maybe that why business people are not talking about it.
Most people respect a democratic vote as well.

I never said it was a problem - you have put up a straw man. I am fed up though of seeing employers whine about how they can't get staff when they won't pay and won't train.

BA for example has problems now with staff shortages, but even before covid they were happily laying staff off. Is it any wonder that people are not returning but are saying "thanks but no thanks."?

Only an idiot would think prices wouldn't rise. Covid and the war in Ukraine has been the tipping point, not brexit. Covid and the war has caused massive problems in most countries

Most people respect a democratic vote as well.

And? You have got your Brexit so democracy has been satisfied.

Now what about the easy trade deals that we were going to have? Half the world was supposed to be running in to do business with the UK. Where are they?
Where is the cheaper food? UK food was already relatively cheap as it happened, but it's increasingly not now.

VAT on fuel scrapped?

when problems are mentioned they are invariably attributed to ridiculous causes like the traffic congestion in kent being due to half term holidays

Strangely enough that was the excuse exactly 10 years ago - 2 June 2012;

Traffic heading for Dover came to a standstill after eight-mile queues built up as bank holiday travellers headed for the Kent ferry port.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-18307471

Because so many idiots believed the whole Brexit bullshit and couldn’t see beyond a blue passport.

Trust Clavinova to turn up to bat for Brexit. Yes, I got stuck in a horrendous traffic jam going to either Folkstone or Dover getting on for 40 years ago now, because of a go-slow by French port workers. Took five hours to move a distance I could have walked in 15 minutes. But it was exceptional, not what appears to be the rule now.

The vote was in 2016. Why hasn't proper provision been made? Isn't six years long enough? (Or do we have to wait for 50 years?)

Yes, @Clavinova can always be relied on to take over any discussion critiquing the shitshow of a government with over-long cut and paste posts. Designed to end the discussion as quickly as possible.

But it was exceptional, not what appears to be the rule now

This was exceptional - 25 April 2022;
P&O Ferries will resume Channel crossings six weeks after its ships were grounded in Dover following the mass sacking of staff – despite initially pledging disruption would last just 10 days.

And this;
DFDS would normally send ferries for refurbishment one at a time, but with ferries needing to return by Easter they had to send two – one vessel each from the Dunkirk and Calais routes – reducing capacity by a third. And P&O Ferries have also sent a vessel for refurbishment, further reducing capacity.

The horrendous lorry queues i saw aren’t people going on half term! They are separate from cars and half term traffic, stuck on their own lane for miles on end. If you’ve not seen it, it’s really shocking and I’d love to see any of our current leaders drive past that and try any kind of positive spin

I don't think you can use P & O as a good example of why there are problems. Their own inability to consult with the unions as required by law, was entirely their own fault, and reduced capacity when crossing the channel. Now breaking the law might well be a brexit bonus, but it's not the best one to boast about.

The horrendous lorry queues i saw aren’t people going on half term!

The queues were affecting everyone not just lorries! They were not special case unaffected - technical problems and staff shortages apparently.

France seem to be in an almost semi permanent strike, with no warning.