The country is a shit show - why is there so little mention of Brexit's role?

[Neonskytonight]

That's it really.

Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?

I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit.

If we want to be accurate the economically inactive is 21% but includes students, the sick and those who have taken early retirement so not necessarily available to take up those vacancies.

Instead the jobs are being exported overseas and the money made is being spent in other economies instead of the UK.

Because war is current and easier to blame. The pandemic was an ideal time to stop it to see how we got on. But no.

The queues at airports and the lorries all backed up just proved our point that it would be worse. Everyone I know who voted for it have been very quiet ever since.

The whole "Freedom of Europe being taken away" is such a misnomer. If it was of interest to that many people, we'd still be in the EU. At the end of the day, being in the EU benefitted the few (the wealthy, highly educated, economically mobile "citizens of nowhere" at the expense of the majority (ordinary people who just want a reasonably well paid job near to where they grew up) which is why Brexit won.

How are things working out for those 'ordinary people' now? Are they in 'well paid jobs' and better off?

How many of our youth ever "studied in Europe"? As a percentage?

How many pet owners took pets on holidays abroad?

As I said, the main effects are on the wealthy elite who came to expect the whole country to be run for their benefit, never mind the effects on ordinary everyday people.

100s of 1000s of UK students, workers and families have benefitted from Erasmus since 1987, and millions take pets abroad pre Brexit, it was as easy as ABC.

As EU workers were filling gaps in our labour, which are now not being filled, not really sure how that benefits anyone.

Boris is today "Declaring war on pay rises" so this idea EU workers kept pay low is false, the Tories keep pay low and have done since 2010, its in their DNA to do so.
An example is nurse and care worker shortages... are pay rises promised? return to the 'bursary? nope... we can all wait years for treatment whilst they use the private sector.

Increased wages with no actual growth to back it up will just lead to runaway inflation. Our growth forecast is looking bleak, our exporters have been cobbled.

Many sectors can’t and won’t increase wages, a few might but most won’t.

Pounds on a downward trajectory.
I would imagine inward investment looking bleak too.

So it’s not the “wealthy elite” (made up nonsense term in the first place) that will suffer. It’s pretty much everyone.

Here’s a couple scenarios I can imagine. Happy to be corrected if I’ve got anything wrong.

Strawberry farm suddenly needs to pay £18 an hour to pickers. Is forced to raise price so that consumers are charged £4 a punnet not £2. Average person can’t afford strawberries anymore. Farm can’t export as there are too many barriers. Farm goes out of business. If we want strawberries, we have to import them and remember the ££ is weak. Net result: no more strawberries unless you are rich, farm becomes wasteland.

Pub needs to pay £20/hr for kitchen staff. Increases price of meal from £12 to £20 to cover costs. Average family now can’t afford Sunday lunch. Pub loses customers and business and goes under as there aren’t the bums on seats. Community loses its pub.

This is the way I see it.

Now that MPs pay rise is safely in the bank, Bozo declaring war on other peoples pay rises is no surprise at all. Expenses and salary assured, freebies constantly sought from friends who expect no reward other than a small peerage or knighthood, life couldn't be better really. I hope he's enjoying it as, with luck, it may not last much longer.

@Lonelycrab As salaries fall in real terms, no one can afford the strawberries, regardless of what they cost, so the farmer goes bust and if the Pub cannot attract staff, then they can't trade and in a recession, things like going out to eat are the first things that are dropped.... pub goes bust.

Wages are not the only reason for price rises, energy is driving inflation atm.

The wealthy elite can still afford to study abroad and take their pets with them, it's the rest of us plebs who can't afford to.

This is such a typical ignorant Brit, race to the bottom thing to say.

Plenty of working class students studied in Europe on the Erasmus scheme. For many, it was the only way they'd get to spend any extended time abroad, and they wouldn't have been able to do it outside of the Erasmus framework, with the modest grant and being able to use their student loan to fund it. I was one of them. I could never have afforded to study abroad without it.

Plenty of working class kids also took gap years to work in Europe. I was also one of them. I had zero parental help and worked as an au pair, so got accommodation and food included.

Brexit has now made it close to impossible for anyone EXCEPT the wealthy elite to do these things, shutting off opportunities for everyone else. Well done.

Another slow clap.

This is exactly how it is.

The working class and underclass people who voted for Brexit as some sort of 'fuck you' to the 'elite' seem to think that it's a good thing if wages rise and then prices rise. Of course it isn't.

These people think everyone richer than them is some sort of 'wealthy elite'. Of course that's not the case. The 'wealthy elite' are less than 1% of the population and the rest of us are just trying to get by.

I earn a decent wage but it doesn't go that far as a single person living alone. Quite simply, if prices rise much more, I won't be able to spend on non-essentials. I used to go to the pub for a Sunday roast every week. I very rarely do that now because the cost is ridiculous. I used to have 3-4 pints if I went to the pub and now it's usually just two, and then switching to soda with lime. Still taking up a seat but spending much less. I used to take the Eurostar over to the continent every other weekend and now it's just a few times a year.

It's just pure delusion to think that higher wages for service jobs mean people will pay more. They can't pay more. They'll just stop using them. We're not Switzerland. We don't have middle class salaries that support insanely high prices for things like restaurant meals. The poverty line in Switzerland is 4000 CHF. Many middle class households in the UK don't take home that much and yet prices for things like restaurant meals, trains and other everyday things aren't that far off.

Brexit has absolutely fucked over everyone who isn't wealthy enough that a 25% rise in cost of living makes little difference.

"Brexit has now made it close to impossible for anyone EXCEPT the wealthy elite to do these things, shutting off opportunities for everyone else. Well done."

Back in days of yore before we joined the EEC (as it was then) I had relatives, UK nationals, work and buy property in mainland Europe. A couple of them live there permanently now but have retained their UK citizenship. My family isn't and never has been a member of the 'wealthy elite' so please can someone explain to me why people can't work and buy property in mainland Europe now we've left the EU ?

Is this a joke?
Surely you know the world has moved on. Moving to Europe will be like moving to America, you won't be able to just rock up and live there. You do know how strict immigration rules into the UK are don't you? Do you think it would be different in European countries?

You can buy property and live on mainland Europe but it's considerably more difficult and more expensive than it was. Not a problem for the wealthy elite, just more difficulty for lower income folk.

@LeftFootForward - that's an easy one as we've just come back from Denmark(we are British) - with regards to property buying, certain countries have rules on this, you have to have 'residency' to buy and lived there for a certain amount of time etc -this was to stop what happened here with Russians/Chinese etc buying up property and inflating prices , particularly in certain areas- there are often different rules for EU citizens to 'everyone else' who is non EU . Also unless you have residency you are subject to the 90/180 rule, meaning you can't stay for more than 90 days in a 180 period meaning you would either have to travel around for 3 months a time or have a UK 'place' as well. EU citizens don't have that rule. So it's fine if you are wealthy and have 2 places and have 'already bought' but doesn't work for lots of others who can't afford 2 places and thought they could retire and now simply don't fit 'residency' qualifications for many countries.

On the work front- strict rules on this, mainly because we have strict rules now the other way around. You can only work now if you have residency agreed and fit the requirements for residency of that particular country- as a non EU citizen- this does not apply if you are EU, although you do have to register within 6 months. Certain non EU countries are on a preferred list because they gave reciprocal arrangements - in Denmark if I remember it was USA, Canada, Australia, NZ and Singapore- it's easier for them to get work visas - and the reverse is true. We are not on preferred lists because we haven't offered reciprocal- you may as well be Syrian if I'm honest. This is why it isn't such a big issue to the very well off- often don't need to work and already gave homes'elsewhere' - it's the middle class who have been stuffed and also the less well off who might occasionally get jobs abroad- think a bit of bar work in Amsterdam or the builders in Auf Wiedersehn Pet or contractors doing a few months in Düsseldorf

@Kendodd
No, it's not a joke. Presumably you can still work and move the mainland Europe if you want to and the US for that matter - I know people who have done it. I know someone at the moment who is in the middle of moving to mainland Europe and has got a job there. It's not, as the PP said, impossible, that's all I'm saying.
Obviously Brexit has made it more difficult, but it's not impossible and only for the very wealthy.

@LeftFootForward, I think the posts are in response to this^^. Pointing out the fact that it's lower and middle income families who are most impacted, not the wealthy elite.

So you would need a job offer, health insurance & min earnings that would cover your partner too, language skills.

OR you could buy your way in with a Golden Visa, which will cost around 500k euros (only applicable to a few EU countries)

What sort of jobs do you think EU countries might be looking for that they cannot fill within a bloc of 27 countries?
Do you think it might be people earning the average UK wage? or a specialist financier, international lawyer, scientist already employed by a European based company?

Perhaps impossible is too strong a word, very difficult might be better.

Then there is people who might wish to travel around europe for more than 3 months at a time, agree, you need to financially secure but i did it by working and travelling, not possible now or people, not the wealthy elite, who bought a small 2nd home or a canal boat, planning on retirement.. not possible to even live there for more than 90 out of a 180 days and that applies to the EU as a bloc.

Over 100k Brits used to work in the tourist sector pre Brexit in Europe, inc a friend of ours who was a cycling guide, he has residency for Spain (obtained it pre Brexit) BUT can only work in Spain, one of his main tours was the Pyrenees, can't venture into France.... no work visa and they like you to be under 50, he is 53 :(

Then there is the UK not in Horizon..... such a lose to UK science.

The world has moved on in the last 50 years since 1973, thinking that we can do what our parents did in 1965 is probably why we have Brexit.

It is impossible for many, many (most?) people. If they don't have the particular specialist skills required or are rich they won't be able to get a work Visa. What do you not get?

I think @Alexandra2001 has it right.
The world has moved on in the last 50 years since 1973, thinking that we can do what our parents did in 1965 is probably why we have Brexit.

"Presumably". So you haven't actually got the foggiest idea about how this works in reality, you've just made an assumption based on nothing.

Brilliant.

If there were all these people studying in Europe, Working in Europe, taking pets on holiday to Europe, how come Brexit won the vote? In reality it has only been a very small minority of people who did any of these things. Most people are quite happy for "freedom of movement" to have ended as they had no interest in ever using it, for them freedom of movement meant lower wages, increased competition for jobs, increased pressure on public services and more demand for housing pushing house prices up.