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Why Are So Many Survivors Supporting Johnny Depp?

238 replies

CaptSkippy · 26/05/2022 21:51

Why Are So Many Survivors Supporting Johnny Depp?

OP posts:
FloorWipes · 27/05/2022 15:15

I’m fascinated by how people can look at this and see polar opposites.

I think it’s important to note that AH, probably living with a cluster B personality disorder, first of all does believe what she is saying and second of all is in genuine psychological pain. My judgment on her isn’t that she is inherently bad but that she is nonetheless capable of a lot of harm and that her disorder is causing her to lie and misrepresent.

I also think relationship dynamics are complicated and there isn’t always a clear line on things. I think it’s pretty probable that there was reactive abuse from Depp, but I think the evidence does point to it being in that context. I don’t think that necessarily makes it morally okay. But I feel he still has the right to shed a light on this without being the quote unquote perfect victim.

I do think we are dealing with gender issues here, and a fundamental belief that many people hold, including maybe Amber herself, that women can’t really harm people. I don’t think people would generally see a woman throwing stuff around a room as abusive the same way they might see it as a abusive in a man but it is at the end of the day the same behaviour.

mummyrocks1 · 27/05/2022 15:43

wellhelloitsme · 27/05/2022 14:28

I don't necessarily believe everything she said, I do believe she has proved he was physically and verbally abusive to her. Therefore she's done enough for him to lose this case.

This. For JD to win the case he has to have convinced the jury that he has never been abusive to AH.

That's regardless of whether she was also abusive to him - that isn't what the jurors in this court case are deciding.

Yes I agree. I think JD will loose as he is unable to prove this. I think they will both loose the other judgements. Is that possible? Or does one have to win?

SleepingStandingUp · 27/05/2022 15:45

CaptSkippy · 26/05/2022 22:57

Maybe you should all read the article rather than getting defensive. It's a short article. You'll be done in a few minutes.

Maybe you should introduce your thread better.

wellhelloitsme · 27/05/2022 16:04

@mummyrocks1

I think that's the most likely outcome.

If the jury isn't convinced that either JD or AH has an individual claim to defamation at the the legal threshold, they will both lose.

wellhelloitsme · 27/05/2022 16:09

I think people have totally misunderstood that the trial isn't about who the 'baddie' is. JD must know he can't win the case, but thinks he can win in the court of public opinion regardless of regardless of the outcome. He said she faced public humiliation and he's achieved his goal. For those confused about the case, this is a handy and unbiased summary of what the jury is required to decide, specifically based on these words: "

"To win a claim for defamation in Virginia, a public-figure plaintiff like Depp (or a public-figure defendant asserting a counterclaim, like Heard) must prove all of the following:
1 a factual assertion or implication made by the party against whom the claim is brought;
2 that is materially false (slight inaccuracies are insufficient);
3 and defamatory in nature;
4 that is about the party asserting the claim;
5 and made to a third party;
6 in a setting or context that isn’t privileged;
7 with “actual malice”;
8 that causes actual or presumed damages

Notice what’s not on this list. There is no requirement, for example, that either party demonstrate that the other one in the relationship was “the real abuser.”
Online debates about who the primary abuser was in the relationship are really not relevant to the issues in the case. In fact, any of the witness testimony or other evidence brought out in this trial that does not relate in some way to one of the above 8 elements should not affect the outcome in any way.
The case is not about whether Depp or Heard is a better human being. It’s about whether either one of them committed actionable defamation resulting in harm to the other.

Remember: Depp’s claim concerns only what Heard wrote about him in her op-ed. It’s not about whether Heard’s tears on the witness stand are real, whether she pooped in Depp’s bed, or which of the parties snorts the most cocaine. If the jury finds that the op-ed’s factual assertions are substantially true, then it’s game over for Depp as Depp will have failed to prove the material-falsity element of his claim.
Heard described herself as a “public figure representing domestic abuse” who “spoke up against sexual violence.” Those are the key statements that need to be false for Depp to win. The jury will have to interpret what they mean. If it finds these statements the equivalent of a mere observation that a couple of years prior, she had gained some notoriety for making an accusation of domestic abuse against Depp, then the statements would be completely accurate and therefore non-actionable. In my view, this would be the correct outcome.

The op-ed doesn’t accuse Depp of any specific acts of abuse. All it says is that Heard became associated with domestic abuse when she had made certain allegations in the past."

OnlyHippyInTheVillage · 27/05/2022 16:11

I read this in its original tweet form before she put it into an article.
It's just opinion, not facts. And as per usual, it's yet another 'Dr', who has her comments closed. If you don't want to have a discourse, keep your opinions to yourself, is what I would say to her. Like the rest of them on there.

mummyrocks1 · 27/05/2022 16:35

This isn't Depp's first defamation lawsuit about domestic violence as a pp said and it's pretty much open that this is being done in Virginia because of how their laws on defamation works.

That's interesting. How so? I wondered why he chose such a random place to have the trial.

FloorWipes · 27/05/2022 16:46

@wellhelloitsme It seems like he can possibly demonstrate a few of those points but it’s the 2 “materially false” part that would be most tricky. Suppose he retaliated by hitting her twice in the context of a reaction to sustained abuse over years, I suppose that means it’s not false. This would seem fairly morally unfair but there you have it.

But at the end of the day, his fastest path to $50 million dollars is earning the good publicity to work again because I don’t think Amber Heard has this money to pay him anyway. He’d be better off starring in a couple of successful films and I bet people would be inclined to see them now too.

It’s all just really sad. I believe Amber Heard is an abuser but I feel sorry for her. Probably more people should have intervened sooner in this sorry in this sorry scenario.

CaptSkippy · 27/05/2022 17:36

SleepingStandingUp · 27/05/2022 15:45

Maybe you should introduce your thread better.

Why?

OP posts:
CaptSkippy · 27/05/2022 17:40

mummyrocks1 · 27/05/2022 16:35

This isn't Depp's first defamation lawsuit about domestic violence as a pp said and it's pretty much open that this is being done in Virginia because of how their laws on defamation works.

That's interesting. How so? I wondered why he chose such a random place to have the trial.

I think it has something to do with anti-slapp laws.

OP posts:
Stellamar · 27/05/2022 18:17

Exactly. The trial isn't about who hit whom when or the correct way in which a victim should speak, It turns on whether or not it was true that she 'became a figure representing domestic abuse.' Two years before the op Ed, She filed and was granted a restraining order based on domestic violence, Depp did not contest it and they released a joint statement saying no one had lied. So I don't even know how this case came to court to be honest because that it is a factual statement that she became a figure representing domestic abuse, without even needing to debate the details.

Stellamar · 27/05/2022 18:18

How anyone can say he's a nice guy or want to watch him in a movie after those text messages.... sickening.

Freddiefox · 27/05/2022 18:55

knittingaddict · 27/05/2022 12:49

I felt the article was more interesting than utter shit written for idiots, particularly the part, and I’m surmising here that some women like to think they would act differently/better/faster/ than the victim as a sort of tool to protect themselves from believing that abuse could happen to them.

I love how some of the people who believe AH want to pigeonhole the people who don't as misogynists and lacking understanding of domestic abuse. It's incredibly insulting.

My daughter was a victim of domestic abuse for 10 years and we knew the abuser well. We helped her leave, helped her found a refuge, supported her emotionally and practically, read books about abuse, read the Freedom Course literature, meet other abused women. My brother was also a victim of a female domestic abuser.

I don't castigate anyone who finds it hard to leave and I certainly don't think it makes them inferior. The average number of times a woman tries to leave beofre she finally succeeds is 7. I know and understand all that, possibly better than some of AH's supporters.

I don't think JD is without his faults and issues, but I do think AH was the really abusive one in the relationship.

I think you are either very arrogant or mistaking my words.

I (not my relation) was a victim of DV for quite a long time. The people who were the most critical of me not leaving him were women.
Women, who told me that I should have left him ages ago, that THEY wouldn’t have let it happen to them, would have left him ages ago. They had no understanding of the control he had over me. But felt qualified to tell me it was my fault for not acting sooner.

All my fault.

ludocris · 27/05/2022 23:28

@CaptSkippy

*Sweetheart, the title is the also the title of the article. Once again, it's not my question. I was quoting the article.

Does this case affect so so much that you are seeing red whenever someone (not me in this case but the author of the article) asks a question that is critical of your idol?*

I think you have the wrong poster. That was my first post on this thread. I was just explaining why it looked as though you'd asked a question.

TheAverageUser · 28/05/2022 07:12

There's certainly biases around women being the victims of DV but there's also massive bias about men. Take the rhetoric appearing on mumsnet around him not being able to be a victim despite her admitting to hitting him.

DV is so emotive and the only choice for the jury is to look at the weight of evidence and decide.

I don't buy in at all that men can't be the victims of DV and I think it's a scary message for this generation.

CaptSkippy · 28/05/2022 09:26

ludocris · 27/05/2022 23:28

@CaptSkippy

*Sweetheart, the title is the also the title of the article. Once again, it's not my question. I was quoting the article.

Does this case affect so so much that you are seeing red whenever someone (not me in this case but the author of the article) asks a question that is critical of your idol?*

I think you have the wrong poster. That was my first post on this thread. I was just explaining why it looked as though you'd asked a question.

Ah, sorry.

I am seeing red too. I was never a fan of Depp and had never heard of Heard before this. Now I hate Depp. I never want to hear the name again.

OP posts:
CaptSkippy · 28/05/2022 09:33

TheAverageUser · 28/05/2022 07:12

There's certainly biases around women being the victims of DV but there's also massive bias about men. Take the rhetoric appearing on mumsnet around him not being able to be a victim despite her admitting to hitting him.

DV is so emotive and the only choice for the jury is to look at the weight of evidence and decide.

I don't buy in at all that men can't be the victims of DV and I think it's a scary message for this generation.

Men can absolutely be victims, especially when the abuser is another man.

As Lundy Bancroft says (I am paraphrasing, because I don't remember the exact words he used in his lecture): Women can be abusive, but they do not have the capacity to create that sheer amount of terror and dread in a man that a man can create in a woman.

I suspect he said that because of the obivious difference in strength and the fact that men are more likely to resort to violence.

Bancroft also says that most male abusers do not often hit. They don't need to. Once they have done it a few times she'll fear his anger enough to get the message. Some abuse victim start walking on egg-shells and other try to fight back. But there are very few female victims who do not flinch when a man makes a sudden motion in anger. He says that neither tactic works. Not fighting back doesn't help and neither does standing up for yourself. You'll lose either way.

OP posts:
FloorWipes · 28/05/2022 09:39

Ok so that’s really interesting that you actually don’t think women are capable of the same kind of abuse and you generally see men and women as quite different in this regard. That does help explain the rest of your thinking.

CaptSkippy · 28/05/2022 09:43

FloorWipes · 28/05/2022 09:39

Ok so that’s really interesting that you actually don’t think women are capable of the same kind of abuse and you generally see men and women as quite different in this regard. That does help explain the rest of your thinking.

It's not what I think. Men are women do not have equal physical strength. That's why it's unfair to make women compete against men in, let's say, swimming competitions of martial arts. It's simply unfair. She doesn't stand a chance.

In a physical altercation between a man and a woman, unless the woman uses a weapon, she will lose.

OP posts:
Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 28/05/2022 09:52

Men can absolutely be victims, especially when the abuser is another man.

Women can be the abusive one in a relationship. It's not always men that are the issue. So men can absolutely be victims, whether the abuser is male or female.

hamdden12 · 28/05/2022 09:56

@CaptSkippy doesn't matter how big or strong you are when you have a vase smashed over your head from behind like on of my best friends did. He ended up in hospital with 30 stitches and she got away with it.

FloorWipes · 28/05/2022 09:57

Well you are talking about an average man and woman for a start and you’re not considering factors like age and health or on this case substance use. Your idea about how it influences the dynamic is an opinion.

TheAverageUser · 28/05/2022 10:51

It's really a strawman argument because the question is whether domestic abuse can happen to men, which it certainly can and not the difference, if any, of the effect of that DV.

I haven't read Bancroft but that seems like she's undermining her argument because if men don't need to rely on their physical strength then neither do women and the DV is equal. It's also a bit much to suggest the fallout is worse for a woman. It's veering towards the "he could have stopped her" which totally misunderstands DV power play and relationships.

FrippEnos · 28/05/2022 11:08

TheAverageUser

It's veering towards the "he could have stopped her" which totally misunderstands DV power play and relationships.

This case shows that even when a man does try to stop a woman (Depp accidentally "headbutting" Heard) he is still in the wrong.

bellac11 · 28/05/2022 11:20

SlightlyGeordieJohn · 26/05/2022 23:54

But we do not yet know that she is a victim, so an article written on that premise, and asking why women are not more supportive is flawed from the off.

Its worse than that even because its a typical stance which is 'we know better than you' about people who have viewed the information about whats happened between them and made a decision based on that information. Rationally, logically, intellectually

But no.... women are too stupid to believe the 'right' narrative (that Heard is not the victim) and so we must be told that we've made up a psychological position in our little heads to 'protect' ourselves. It cant possibly be because the evidence points to the obvious conclusion.

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