Texas school shooting!

[youngestisapsycho]

Just watching on news now.. shocking!

So you can buy a gun in America at 18 but not a beer, whoever sold the guns to the person needs to be held accountable.

I saw the headline. Thought how tragic and scrolled on. It's so common now that they barely register.

I will say that guns are one of the big reasons (along with abortion and religion) that many of us Americans think we will not remain one single country. I'm from the East Coast which is much more anti-gun but we can't have our own laws about it because people in other states are assholes. I will be surprised if the US makes it through the next few decades without breaking up.

I remember reading a thing of 'funny things you noticed when moving to Ireland' mostly people were saying small differences that were funny. One lady said her DH is Irish, when they moved here from Florida (I think) her kids came home from school and said they had a 'drill' this morning' she realised it was a fire drill and that they would no longer have drills on what to do if there was shooting. She said she thought it was odd until, she realised no it was odd that she had lived in a place where the need to have such a drill in place was normal she thought not having one was odd.

I've been to a few states, I've always found most Americans to be very friendly and I liked it there. But I hated being on public transport in Chicago and seeing people with guns on their belt. They always say criminals will always find a way to get them, which is true, they do here in Ireland. But when an 18yr old can legally buy an assault rifle a 'AR-15 semi-automatic rifle' WTF!!!!

In the UK following one single school shooting the rules around ownership of guns were tightened and people were willing to agree to it because of what had happened. Yet after all these awful shootings there are still people and groups in the US that vote for the right to bear arms that’s on a constitution from 1788, isn’t a potential solution to this that yes they can have weapons that were available in 1788 but nothing like a semi automatic rifle etc.

It changes when you change the culture to make it seem a harmful thing to do.

If you go back to the 1960's smoking was a common sight the in UK. It was on TV, in the pubs, on public transport and at the home. Smoking was seen as sexy, cool, and rebellious. The cancer risks were known, but not really talked about.

It took a long, long time to change that. The UK started with a TV ban in 1965, followed by an EU directive in 1980. British Airways kicked off a smoking ban on planes in 1990. At the same time, we had health campaigns, doctor's questions, pressure from the midwives and those horrible pictures of diseased lungs on cigarette packets.

It became illegal to smoke in nightclubs, pubs bus shelters, buses or taxi cabs in 2007. Cigarette vending machines were banned in 2011. Finally, it became illegal to smoke in workplaces (enclosed or partially enclosed) in 2021. The Government wants the UK to go smoke-free by 2030.

The USA needs to treat its gun problem with THAT level of persistence and legislation. It's not a freedom issue - it's a public health issue. It can't be changed overnight but by ratcheting up the laws, you can do so over time. If you told everyone in 1960 that cigarettes would disappear from public life within 60 years, they would have laughed at you.

We have an American family at our school, on a military posting. They very much want to stay here once the dad leaves the military. I hope they are able to, they’re a lovely family. They are all the things that are best about the States - they’re warm, friendly, kind people who get involved in the community and support others. They help at every school event, and just generally get stuck in.

I can’t begin to fathom how the United States can allow this to happen over and over again. It’s just beyond my comprehension that reasonable people could look at these repeated tragedies and not try and do something to stop them. I can’t square that circle.

If our friends had to go back, it would feel like we were sending them off into danger. It’s crazy to feel like that about a rich, developed country which is not at war! But it would. Their youngest child is in my son’s class, Y1 - right at the age of this last at school. It’s unbearable.

I don’t think the States will change now - there just seems to be such apathy and such division. It’s just appalling. Those poor babies and their poor families.

The shooter ordered the gun online from a firm called Daniel Defence. This is their ad campaign, getting guns into the hands of toddlers. ( Sorry, I do not know how to do a screenshot). publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FCanDoChiChi%2Fstatus%2F1529308740343799808&widget=Tweet

Religion and gun ownership. The worst thing ever.

@TheABC
Absolutely right and I get the comparisons. The tobacco industry is/was extremely rich and powerful giving massive amount of tax (in the UK anyway) to the government but it still happened. I speak as someone who used to smoke at work, unbelievable now.
The NRA are very powerful, it's not all about them but it's a lot about them.
Think you're right it will happen albeit slowly.

Nobody can come up with any legitimate use for owning an assault rifle can they ?
It always makes me curious why one particular amendment cannot be amended any further but prohibition came into place with the 18th amendment and ended with the 21st amendment, so it isn't as though there isn't already a history of change or additions of new amendments.

so it isn't as though there isn't already a history of change or additions of new amendments

agree, the clue’s in the word “amendment”, isn’t it.

if the constitution were unchangeable, there wouldn’t be any amendements.

I think guns and school shootings are just a symptom of the bigger problem with democracy/ capitalism in general. The rules are made by groups of people that have too much power and money. They don’t care that kids are dying or people are starving and homeless because it doesn’t affect them. Their kids are safe in the best protected schools so they don’t have to worry about it. They just do what will make them even more power and money. I don’t expect anything to change unless/until those people learn how it feels to lose someone this way. Even then, they still probably won’t change.

It seems the shooter was horribly bullied, had mental health problems, and was being raised by a drug-addicted single mom before going to live with his grandmother.

School shootings are a bit different from other mass shootings in the US in that the perpetrators are usually teenagers themselves, and often have a history of mental health issues, bullying or abuse, difficult home lives (not always but often). They have been failed by the system as children themselves.

This is why, even among people who are pro-gun, there is a lot of support for mandatory background checks and assault weapon bans. Fine, maybe we can't get rid of handguns, maybe we can't stop most people buying guns, but we can certainly stop people with a history of disturbing behaviour from buying AR-15s.

I have been reading on Twitter this morning that it's not as simple as 'Dunblane happened and then the UK got rid of guns'. Apparently quite a few people were against new restrictions? Including Boris Johnson! He was a columnist at the time and said it was just nanny state over-reaction.

Now imagine all those people were given enormous sums of money by the NRA and could block new legislation forever, that is why the US is messed up. Even when one administration manages to do something, like the old assault weapons ban, the next administration can just change it.

Smoking is an interesting one isn’t it, you quite often see those warnings at the beginning of films warning against bad language or nudity or violence, and increasingly smoking . So cultures can change, even against hugely influential lobbies like the tobacco industry, it just needs will power on the part of government and public opinion loudly expressed.

Mind you the tobacco industry lucked out, they managed to refocus on poor countries and develop a need for their products there. The gun industry might not find it so easy to switch markets.

We didn't have a big gun culture, though even before Dunblane ,it wasn't normal for people to grow up with guns in the house,.

@Omega33 I saw that TikTok too, the American teacher just couldn't get her head around the fact we don't have lockdown/shooter drills in Europe

Heartbroken. Hugged my 7yr old tight yesterday.

Am I the only one who had fleeting moments of worry when sending their kid/s to school this morning??
I know, I realise this was in the US and guns are legal there and aren't here, etc. I realise my feelings were largely irrational but I can't be the only one who gave their child an extra big kiss & cuddle this morning? :'(

I remember really hoping that during Obamas time in Office, things were starting to change....but here we are again and countless more parents have lost children, children have lost siblings, friends and teachers losing a child from their class. It's awful.

School shootings are a bit different from other mass shootings in the US in that the perpetrators are usually teenagers themselves, and often have a history of mental health issues, bullying or abuse, difficult home lives (not always but often). They have been failed by the system as children themselves

what system? Unless the grandmother had good health insurance (and even then) presumably the cost of any MH intervention would be unaffordable.

if the US thinks MH and “the system” is to blame, maybe again they should look to themselves and their resistance to affordable healthcare, welfare etc.

same with the abortion argument. If they ban abortion they need to put free healthcare and minimum living standards in place for each child born.

i still can’t believe it’s legal to cut of water supplies there, and there are people living with no running or clean water because they can’t afford it.

Even more reason to restrict the access to guns.

In general, you just have to look at the nutjobs who stormed the Capitol. They are the gun toting, ma freedom, my right to bear arms, anti abortion, fundamental Christians that are soaking America in its own terrorism, against its own people.

there’s a really interesting account from someone who was at the Las Vegas shooting. Before he was very pro gun, right to defend, only way to stop a bad man with a gun etc..
after he said he realised him and his gun are absolutely fuck all use during an incident, and will likely make things worse. He is pro gun control now.

This interests me. Being Texas, many of the parents are going to be pro-gun. It would be interesting to know if and how many change their opinion in the wake of losing their child.

Its disgusting, of course, because it means they don’t care about other people’s families, only when it affects their own. But I still wonder..

It was Caleb Keeter. Him and his bandmates all had access to handguns and legal firearms during the shooting.

amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-gun-control-caleb-keeter-josh-abbott-band

addressing your point- he was actually asked why this changed his mind rather than sandy hook etc.

i wonder if it’s because they believe if they were there with their gun they would have stopped it, and it’s only when they were there with their guns they realise that’s unrealistic.

in this case 3 armed police officers could not stop one 18 year old entering that school and killing 19 children.

Thanks for the link, I’ve read it. It’s interesting and I think you’re probably right about having to experience it before you realise having your own gun doesn’t help. I wonder how many have this idea that they could steam in, take out the bad guy, pow-pow, save the people, be a hero. And the reality is, it doesn’t happen.