If you're a South African living in England....(or you know some)

[TiredButDancing]

.... do you regularly get told you're terribly blunt/tell it like it is/ call a spade a spade a spade etc? And usually when you think you've made a fairly benign comment?

I thought it was just me because I am quite chatty and open and I always just thought that was me, not because I'm South African. But was chatting yesterday with a client who I consider to be the epitome of polite, measured responses and who also happens to be a South African and she said that in a meeting recently where she raised something she considered relatively minor but that needed a solution, the senior person in the room said, "Trust the South African in the room to come out with it."

I no longer comment in most school WhatsApp groups etc except when it's essential and they are looking for specific information from me (eg, "yes, DS will attend that event") because I slowly came to realise that there was a higher chance of me accidentally offending someone. I've also just declined to be the parent co-ordinator for a group the DC attend because while I'd actually be very happy to help out, I find the way the things the other mums say and do on the chat frankly baffling, and assume, based on experience, they'll feel the same about me.

Anyone else?

I'm mostly super happy living here and we have such a great life and lots of friends etc. But even after more than 20 years I still seem to be blindsided by cultural differences.

Not South African but have several SA friends. I wouldn’t describe any of them as blunt.

I only know one South African guy, he's a totally reserved, self effacing, gentle man.
Nothing blunt about him.

There are plenty of people of other nationalities who are blunt by UK standards.

The best one I remember was when I worked with some Hungarians. One of them asked a Creative Manager in a meeting what they actually meant as the Creative Manager was sprouting BS. The 5 others in the room including me - all British - couldn't look at each other. Strangely we all wanted our Hungarian colleague in the room when we had meetings with the Creative Manager from then on, and oddly the Creative Manager arranged meetings so our Hungarian colleague wasn't....

I would say it's less that SAs are blunt but the British are over polite.

South African BIL can be pretty blunt at times, bordering on rude. I think it's a gritty personality type as he's had to grow up under a lot of strain in a dangerous part of the country. It often surprises me that he doesn't think what he says is offensive when challenged. But more often than not it's not what he says but the slightly aggressive tone in his voice when he says it. He does have some issues though so not sure if it's just him or more common as I don't know any other SA's

Move to Yorkshire, OP! Southerners accuse them of the same bluntness.

Would you really consider that situation an example of being "blunt"?
I wouldn't.

I know several people from South Africa and they are all lovely people, but one of them is as subtle as a brick and blunt to the point of rudeness. He doesn't know he's doing it though.

I'm married to a South African, and lots of his friends live in the UK too so I see a lot of them. Dh is not blunt and is very polite - now! But he he moved here in his mid 20s and is now 50s, so he's had time to have some of the corners rubbed off him shall we say! He was a tad too arrogant in his younger years in a way that I have found common amongst a lot of his SA friends (privliidged childhoods in apartheid SA) Dh admits he had to adjust his attitude to fit in a bit easier here. He now is able to accept that his upbringing contributed to his attitude.

We have SA relatives. I think what sounds blunt is sometimes just the accent. My BILs all have quite clipped accents and like to say things in as few words as possible which can come across as blunt. My boss is also SA and can be quick short and sharp with instructions so maybe it's a cultural thing?

Bit of a mixed bag. But actually, I understand the comment re aggressive comments. I can recognise it in South African friends/family. And although not recently, I've been told I can seem aggressive when making a point (probably when I was still "fresh off the boat"! :) )So that might definitely be a SA thing.

@Tidypidy I'm actually embarrassed that my accent doesn't seem to have softened at ALL.

The Hungarian example is the sort of thing that I would say. I've learnt to be a lot more polite and indirect about it though. I wouldn't just come right out with it today.

Yes, Dutch and South African people to have the reputation of being blunt.

However, I think the person who said “Trust a South African to say that” was rude. It would be like a Brit whining and a South African saying, “Trust a Brit to moan”. As in, sure it’s a stereotype, it doesn’t mean every person from that country is the same or that it is acceptable to voice that opinion.

Not necessarily South African but I have had to deal with customer complaints where they believe staff from non British cultures have been rude to them, although its just the phrasing and intonation rather than any actual rudeness. In the UK we do have "rules" of polite conversation which take some time to recognise if you aren't used to it. Perhaps we are over polite and like to be a little less direct in our demands?

I'm 'northern' living in the south, and get accused of directness. I've only ever met one pair of South Africans (middle aged married couple, teachers) and they were blunt, rude and outrageously racist and assumed everyone else felt the same as them. I'm sure they're not representative of all South Africans though!

Are these white or Black South Africans you’re talking about? There may also be a difference between those groups and perceived privilege / pushiness / giving orders when speaking from the former.

@ClockTooFast I just realised my closest English friend is a northerner. My second closest English friend is NOT, but her mother isn't English. I'm sensing a trend!

Also, sadly, yes, there are lots of racist twat-face south africans. I cringe when I meet them. But racism is racism and is unacceptable in all instances so I'm happy to exclude them from my hypothesis (and as a South African, there is NOTHING worse than meeting one of these in England and they assume you are the same. I've had some awkward moments, I can tell you. Fewer and fewer all the time though thank goodness.)

I only have one black South African friend in England. His issue is that people struggle to understand him as his accent is strong and, for English people, unusual. He experiences a lot of subtle and not-so subtle racism. Different issue though. I haven't met a lot of black South Africans in England - probably because it can be difficult to get visas to move here. Many white South Africans are here either on Ancestry Visas because their grandparents or even, I think, great grandparents, were English, or on EU passports because their families were originally from places like France, Italy, Greece, Portugal etc.

One of the trainers employed at my company always had feedback to say he sounded quite arrogant and blunt. Having seen him in action it was the South African accent not him.

Dh is South African and yes I would say he is pretty blunt, he doesn’t sugar coat things in the way I would. He has nothing on the Israelis I know though…..

Yes - not always about me but especially in a previous role, people were always going on about how aggressive blunt they think South Africans are and that they 'make allowances' for me because I am South African.

I've grown into it actually, and now am much more direct when I want to get a point across or explain something. I'm
Not aggressive by a long shot, but I seldom start sentences by apologising for disagreeing anymore.

Omg yes! Meeting another South African who is a 'when we' (when we were in SA, things were better because XYZ) is so embarrassing and I cringe thinking people will tar me with the racist brush on that!

I have a few SA friends, not blunt just lovely straight forward people. We're a bit blunt too so perhaps we don't notice as much 😉

My manager is a South African living in England. He's very straight to the point but a really lovely person and not blunt in a nasty way.

I would say the white SA people I know do often come across as a bit arrogant... I also think there is a tendency towards speaking directly, not beating around the bush. I quite like it though. You know where you stand. I now live overseas in a culture that is heavy with sub text, so I often feel, even as a Brit, that I've put my foot in it or been too direct 😆. I prefer SA bluntness!