If you're a South African living in England....(or you know some)

[TiredButDancing]

.... do you regularly get told you're terribly blunt/tell it like it is/ call a spade a spade a spade etc? And usually when you think you've made a fairly benign comment?

I thought it was just me because I am quite chatty and open and I always just thought that was me, not because I'm South African. But was chatting yesterday with a client who I consider to be the epitome of polite, measured responses and who also happens to be a South African and she said that in a meeting recently where she raised something she considered relatively minor but that needed a solution, the senior person in the room said, "Trust the South African in the room to come out with it."

I no longer comment in most school WhatsApp groups etc except when it's essential and they are looking for specific information from me (eg, "yes, DS will attend that event") because I slowly came to realise that there was a higher chance of me accidentally offending someone. I've also just declined to be the parent co-ordinator for a group the DC attend because while I'd actually be very happy to help out, I find the way the things the other mums say and do on the chat frankly baffling, and assume, based on experience, they'll feel the same about me.

Anyone else?

I'm mostly super happy living here and we have such a great life and lots of friends etc. But even after more than 20 years I still seem to be blindsided by cultural differences.

I’m not detailing the thread, I’m calling out someone who is talking bollocks.

You are simply not allowed to end things “in a sharp manner”as a collections agent, those are the FCA regulations. It is not about “getting through more calls” it is about ensuring each customer is treated fairly and their full needs assessed. Banks have to be extremely careful with their KPIs that they are seen to be measuring customer outcomes not number of calls answered.

A great many white South Africans are also descended from British settlers -mainly from England and Scotland, some from Wales and Ireland/N. Ireland.

As a second generation South African/British colonial living in South Africa, with strong Scots and Yorkshire heritage, I am extremely proud of my British forebears. Not all white South Africans are doer, racist and thick. Many are liberal, empathetic and well read and travelled people who have lived expansive lives on the continent of Africa, and now return to Mother England.

To be clear, I am forthright, honest, hard working, broad minded and well educated, and what of it? I take umbrage at some of the ignorant and frankly xenophobic (racist) comments on here and IRL. Inform yourself a bit more by reading a history book or two about South Africa and the expansion of the British Empire before posting shitty, blanket comments.

I have some lovely British friends, but sadly elsewhere I find there does seem to be a level of ignorance and little empathy.

Not blunt, but I find when taking to people from other cultures the way sentences are phrased can make them appear blunter/ more waffley. Taking turns with a colleague from Nigeria checking people in one day, I'd say "could you put a mask on please" and she'd say "put a mask on please". Just removing that one word in the sentence made it sound different.

Equally, I've found having a conversion with Pakistani customers have lot more filler in between the details I'm looking for.

As a pp said, the accent changes the way a word sounds and flows too, and so changes how the sentence is heard.

I think it’s definitely a cultural thing. I’m from another white and blunt cultural background and I’ve had to learn to tone it down. Dh used to be so embarrassed of me because I was ‘not very British’ about things. Over the years, I have come to appreciate being a bit more subtle, but my bolshy-ness has worked to our advantage many times.

I do want to crawl under a table though when I encounter people from my home country here, because to me they come across as so crass and like they can’t read a room.

Nah you just know some miserable English folk. Ignore.

I've had this feedback (about being blunt) but what is interesting is that I find other English speakers come across as off hand and blunt to me. So, I've suggested a cross cultural communication workshop at work - strangely they couldn't see that there might be a problem with them too!

A South African friend of mine told me where they’re from they start a lot of sentences with “listen”.
As a long time Brit it jars me when she does it.
for me, there is a difference in communication style. It’s not that our way is better or the South African way though

My boss is SA and I wouldn't call her blunt per se (particularly not in person - she's lovely!), but I do occasionally find her writing style a bit brusque over email / Teams.

I also have Dutch and German colleagues who pretty forthright.

However, I think of that as less of a flaw on their part and more the fact that I grew up in a society where passive aggression / not saying what you mean and expecting others to understand the nuance has been escalated to an art form.

An American colleague once described British English as 'learning how to speak in code', which I thought was pretty on the mark.

Not noticed any bluntness but was confused the first time I encountered "Just now."
I asked a friend if they wanted a drink and they said they'd make it as they were getting one 'just now'.
About 10 minutes later I asked again and friend explained that 'just now' (soon) was not at all the same as 'now now' (now).

Maybe that's just my friend though 😅

I had a South African boyfriend so knew his family and friends too. None were noticeably blunt

I hear this a lot where I live (not SA but a big SA community). It comes across as very aggressive but very similar to the local equivalent of 'listen, I tell you'.

My Australian friend often begins sentences with "Now look.." and proceeds to hold forth with their (not to be challenged) opinion.

Unfortunately this habit has spread to his English wife and mother in law meaning I hear it a lot, unfortunately.

I work with many SA people. I would say the opposite. They are reserved and very polite

Not to be confused with 'now now'.

'Now now' is sooner than 'just now'

😊

Yes, I have been told this throughout my career, usually in complaint when I've held them accountable for something they've not done or as a compliment about 'knowing where they stand' and 'always looking out for the good of the team/ company' when they are happy with my approach.

So I take it with a pinch of salt (as I perform well and get results that my bosses and team love) but have tried over the years to temper my 'directness' but still struggle with why I can't ask a direct question without lots of passive aggressive flowery words when communicating in writing with colleagues/ direct reports.

Socially I can't recall it having been pointed out and don't think I am too direct in social occasions but do believe directness has a place in a work environment (where I am being paid for results in a fast moving, target driven professional environment so don't think we have time for flowery, passive aggressive, coded exchanges).

I started this thread months ago - so funny to see it pop up again. Feedback continues to be mixed.

But to clarify, "just now" could be anything from in a few minutes to... never. . It's often the kind of thing said to children as in "Can i have an ice cream?" "Just now" ie probably not or maybe if you're lucky after dinner!

I've ditched all PTA activities and my life is much happier for it! It's surprisingly liberating just choosing not to try. (I took on an alternative volunteering thing for my DD's activity instead!).

Also, I completely understand what @isthismylifenow was saying re the bank. It's not about being unkind or pushy to customers, but rather about being 100% clear and not dancing around. I know that quite often when I speak to call centres it can be frustrating getting them to be specific about next steps etc.

I knew someone from my turf would get it.

😀

Omg reading this thread has really made me realise how much I waffle now. I never used to but I've lived here so long that I've obviously been working so hard to blend in.
And how exhausting it is not to just say, no, it's not possible to do what you want - here is what is possible.