Do you raise your eyebrows at people with 4 children?

[AnxietyForever]

Just above really? I always find 2 or 3 children are seen as the 'norm', what about 4 children?

If we did all reduce the number of children we had, while it's true that this would be a problem for a while where we had too many old people and not enough young ones to support them, it would eventually resolve itself as the older people died out.

The govt seems to find plenty of money for things they consider important so I'm sure they could find the money to support an ageing population if they really wanted to. Especially if they stopped wasting it now or did some windfall taxes on companies who are profiteering

But there are populations in fast decline, they need growth just to mitigate the fast reduction of a working population. Nobody is talking about a pyramid scheme or achieving net growth.

The whataboutary of those with larger families blaming those who drive and fly it is all about making the biggest contribution to climate change. Having a child is the biggest carbon emission someone will make by far. I could never recycling drive my ford Mustang everywhere fly twice a year for the rest of my life and still have left of an effect on the climate than someone who has a child.

Trying to tackle climate change without population control is like trying to fill a bath with a mug with the plug open. It's pointless.

Italy's birth rate is at 1.2 children per woman and it declines year on year. What do you think is going to happen to taxes in Italy in 20/30 years time? Who do you think is going to stick around there to find out? Who is going to take on this over balanced caring responsibility?

As a child of a larger family I always feel sorry for the kids when I see these families. I'm sorry but there is no way you can spend quality time with each child, I have no good memories with my mother but plenty of me being expected to look after my younger siblings.

This is exactly how I and my siblings feel about our parents. We were a large family and never got any time one on one with either my DM or DF. My DM didn't work and was a SAHM but my main memories are of my parents being stressed out and permanently frazzled. I feel like they had multiple children for their own benefit rather than ours. Don't get me wrong, I love my siblings dearly but none of us have a particularly close relationship with my DM now as adults....our overriding memory of being children is she never really had time for us.

I totally accept that this is just my own personal experience of being from a big family but it's the main reason I stopped at two DC.

I think the biggest contribution to environmental damage is the absolute expectation we have for life to be convenient - so everything packed in plastic, available all year, right to travel at all times in our own cars rather than on public transport, the endless need for new stuff. And the enormous businesses providing these things are trashing the planet. Landfill is frightening.
Obviously more people = more damage and probably yes, we should all have fewer dc really but I don't think the impact is worse than the impact caused by how we live. During lockdown we saw real changes in air quality etc because we were forced to live differently. Not saying I want to go back to that but if countries were really invested in fixing the planet we would ban non essential plastic, reduce flights, stop importing out of season food and reduce landfill. They would work to make our economies less dependent on constant shopping and replacing perfectly good items with new ones and cheap fashion.

I came from a larger family, and loved it, see my siblings several times a year (we live a in different cities) and talk/message daily with most of them. I never cared for my siblings and I wouldn’t have minded helping if I’d been asked to.

I raise my eyebrows at three, so four I definitely do! It's incredibly uncommon in this day and age in my social group to have more than two. When a friend announced her third we assumed it'd been an accident lol. Four, I would just assume they were quietly wealthy or poor planners.

@Oldraver
I've yet to meet a family with four children that are supporting themselves and not heavily reliant on benefits/taxcredits (yes I know there is a cap or something now). This I would raise an eyebrow at as I think it immoral to have more children knowing you cant support them

Dh and his 3 siblings all went the independent route BIL sadly died in his 20s (drunk driver took him and his fiance') so we wont know what he would have become but he had 2 solid job offers that would have taken him far.

My 4 (18-24) are all on the way to becoming independent dd1 is on the route to become a librarian dd2 writing her dissertation in phycology DD3 is about to enter a physic unicourse and DS is on the path for a 1st in Sports management I have every faith my 4 will live independent lives and able to support themselves.

DH and I earn above the benefit range so have not received tax credits or benefits. We have 4 sets of friends with 4 children and in the case of 3 of them they are sending their children to private schools. So again no benefits/tax credits.

we used cloth nappies so our children's nappies are not in a land field anywhere. I breastfeed all 4 2 of them for 2 years. We have never had more than 1 car and I tend to use ecological products where possible. I realise DH and I are in a comfortable position however I do not think we are rich our priorities were towards our children and ensuring they had a good childhood. I don't think it has any sway if we had stuck to 1 or had more. Much more to do with what sort of life style you wish.

I just marvel at their ability to multitask and look after that many children. I have none so they are also compensating for me!

Wondering what the point of all these 'raised eyebrows' is. Like any of us with large families actually care about your judgement 😂

ColdColdColdColdCold

Here are some free eyebrows for you, in case you run out ^ ^
Great username btw 🙄

and some for your social group, too

^ ^

No. I live in Ireland. I'd have a constant headache from the permanently raised eyebrow.

You could make a convincing argument to tax activities based upon co2 emission going forward. We already do it with transport like flying and petrol taxation. Perhaps that is what is needed to fight climate change. The cost of a child would sky rocket with their environmental impact.

Really? I have 4 children, now in their 30s. The have had plenty of love, a good education, wanted for nothing and have grown up into lovely people, close to me and each other. Not sure anything would have been different if I had stopped at two. Very odd attitude

I have 7 and people raise their eyebrows on a regular basis but I take care of them and not the state so who cares what people think 😆

I'm sure Italy will be able to attract all the skilled workers it needs. And long term a fall in population will ease pressures on all sorts of things - land, water, housing. Just as well as the Sahara creeps north.

Not sure anything would have been different if I had stopped at two. Very odd attitude

Well it clearly would, but it depends on the age gap. No way is it the same. Depends on how spread they are. 4 in 5 years is not the same as 4 children over 15 years.

I was the older child followed by 4 younger in rapid succession. It was absolute chaos, p and sp hated it and resented the children for being tiring. They were bored and acted out even more.

I don't think it's anyone's business. I know not a single person who has 4 kids. I know few (maybe 3 people) who have 3 kids and for me this seems alot. I'm 40. To me, 4 kids is something from my parents generation. I can't imagine giving them the amount of attention they deserve at 4 kids.

Perhaps, unless people migrating to countries desperate for new workers would rather not pay prohibitive levels of tax. Anyway, we'll see. My point was that it is not, as the pp explained it, a declining population is not a problem free event. You might believe that this is problem which is temporary and for the best in in the long run but it is naive and disingenuous to present it as a trivial matter.

It was absolute chaos, p and sp hated it and resented the children for being tiring. They were bored and acted out even more.

These type of “parents” would behave exactly the same if there were only one or two children.

Don't notice, don't care.

@DFOD I agree, but even good parents can be overwhelmed. Even with fewer kids, a small gap can be too much -

Point being, 4 kids is not the same as someone else's 4 kids. The age gap is important. You could have four kids and the older ones have left home, or 4 kids all in primary school.

@Oldraver we have decided to TTC number 4. Our 3 children are in prep school (youngest one is actually in their nursery) we have a very nice lifestyle including several holidays abroad per year. We don’t get child benefit, tax free childcare or anything else. There are many high profile families with 4 children who most certainly won’t receive any benefits whatsoever.