New employee is a fake, where to go from here?

[londonnotlangdon]

It's a large organisation and I just had to send off her paperwork, passport, things like that

She was given the job after her second interview last week.

However, she has emailed me these documents (fine), and her birth certificate says born in September 2002?

That makes her 19?

This is a problem because, for example, her CV says she was an Executive Assistant to a Director in 2018? When she would've been in school?!

I've asked HR, who haven't replied properly, I've asked them to call. But someone replied to my email of concern with 'so you don't want this new me ever of staff? Why not?'

What can actually be done about this?

I agree @FeathersMcGee - good summary

And definitely escalate with a more senior HR manager if you don’t get a satisfactory resolution.

Of course it is possible that she has something in her background such as a mental health crisis and extended period off work that she believes is likely to prevent her getting another high level job, and does not want to disclose it. Oh she was previously bullied by someone in a high position in a previous employment and had to leave but has no references - and thinks if she says she will get labelled as a whistleblower and not given another job. Or even that she had a long career break for having children and now can't get back to the level she was and is desperate for a job as her DH has been made redundant and they are on the verge of losing their house.

None of these are likely to apply because she's 19. Most employers would expect a 19 year old to have very little in the way of employment references for an entry-level job.

I get the fleeting thought of wanting a chance but some of those NHS stories above are outrageous. What message does it send?

Honestly I dont understand people who are trying to excuse this. She clearly isnt that clever otherwise she would recognise that her age and previous roles just dont add up. £40k is a lot of money for a 19 year old with little experience (if she is only 19 she really wont have very much work experience).

However she clearly interviewed well if you have offered her the role unless she was the only applicant!

I agree with others - ask her to confirm her birth date. Nothing else. By default she should recognise that the game is up.

The comments about HR do not surprise me. They were totally useless in my previous company (large FTSE). They seemed to have little experience and in the event of any trouble they ran for the hills. My boss was told to fire one of our team. HR were meant to attend the face to face meeting as well and at the last moment cried off. My poor manager had to do it and was terrified that he would mess it up.

Another situation involved someone who tried to sue the company. HR were actually called to the stand in court and made such a mess of it with their lack of knowledge that by default it was found in favour of my colleague.

Generally my old company didnt expect people to have the guts to take them on so I suspect that HR didnt have any real experience of representing the company in a court case.

You’re her manager, so I don’t understand why you haven’t sat her down and asked her directly? Are you afraid of confronting a teenager who you manage? This whole thread is lost on me.

There seems to be two (reasonable) possibilities here. Let's discount witness protection!

Either her ID is fake / not hers and she is older as you suspect, but doesn't have the correct ID to take the job. In that case her work history may be correct but how did she get past their HR teams with the dodgy ID?

Or she's lied on her CV, which seems more likely given some of the companies are out of business. She might be very good at the talk, and capable of doing the job, but it's not right to lie to get it.

Either way HR can advise, and I would be putting your concern in writing to them (especially given there are offences associated with employing someone who doesn't have the right to work here). If you are very clear - eg she says she had this role at a large company at the age of 15 - they'll have to actually engage with it.

This is not embellishment.

"Embellish" means making real experience sound grander than it is. "Coordinating intra-team communication" when you were just setting up meetings for the manager for example. If you can then successfully talk around the point to show that you understand what's involved in building working relationships, then it's acceptable and you might well manage whatever step up you're aiming for.

Company names worked for, qualifications achieved and dates must be factual, or you're lying so it's fraud. If it's work experience then it should show as holiday dates with breaks and be highlighted clearly as such, or the dates and employment status are a lie. Passport, any other ID and NI number must belong to the person, or you're lying so it's fraud. In this particular case, the evidence cannot add up to this person being 19 AND holding those jobs in those time periods. Therefore this person is a fraudster, who should be reported to Action Fraud rather than hired.

Clearly fake OP, dig in your heels with HR and make bloody sure she isn't hired. And if the firm is mad, desperate, or gullible enough to ignore you and hire her, time to start looking for a position somewhere sane! Oh and as a PP said - get this thread pulled.

I'm an oldish bird, recently retired, and have seen people learn the hard way NOT to hire someone who they can see defects with AT INTERVIEW. No. Just No. If you can't trust them, don't hire them.

You cannot employ someone who has been proven to be deceitful just because ‘they did well to get through the interview process / has some serious chutzpah’.

Executive Assistants (real ones, not glorified secretaries typing letters and answering ‘phones all day) are privy to all manner of confidential and often contentious information and data. It would be reckless to allow such a fallacious person to continue to work for your organisation.

children are meant to be in training or education up to 18, however my experience is that 16,17 year olds do go off and find work instead.

She was brilliant in the interview and as I say, she answered all the questions fantastically

Me and my colleague were impressed.

Why did you need her birth certificate if you already had her passport?

People embellish their CVs ALL THE TIME in order to secure an interview. It sounds like that’s what has happened, and at interview it was decided she was suitable for the job. So the problem is…?

There's a difference between a slight exaggeration on a CV and totally lying about previous jobs and/or qualifications. The fact that she passed the interview is irrelevant as her apparent work experience would have been taken into account and she may have got the job over other people who have been truthful on their CVs as a result. Not a sort of employee most companies want.

Just ask another PA to have chat with her and then you will know if she’s faking her experience.

She is bullshitting,

I was a PA/EA for a very long time. I have a degree but started out a very long time ago when there was very much a hierarchy for those roles from Junior Admin to EA to the CEO. Over time all of those roles have disappeared so you now have young women (because it generally always is women) stepping straight into PA to Director roles.

An EA to Director role in a global corporate is entirely different to a PA for a small local business but over the years I saw loads and loads of young girls step into these roles and fall flat on their face. Male bosses (because it generally always is male bosses) just see a pretty face and a nice personality and give them the job. However, very often they don't have the knowledge or experience to handle the workload or behave in a way that's appropriate to the role or navigate the politics.

Many people assume these roles are easy and it's a job you can blag your way into but you really do need experience before stepping into a senior PA/EA role. I suspect she thinks this is an easy (ha!!!) route into earning £40k per year.

I wouldn't withdraw the offer yet but I would push very hard to get her to come up with references to back up her claims. The organisation I work for asks for references to cover the last five years of employment. They also require legitimate company emails so no personal email addresses. Could you do this?

Sorry, I know I sound a bit mean but if she really is a chancer then you'd be doing her a favour long term. It's very entitled behaviour which seems a bit endemic these days.

Me too. It's a bit unlucky to have worked for 2 companies that have gone to the wall in such a short career!

It doesn’t matter if she was great at interview. You interviewed her on lies and over and above candidates that were truthful.

Surely HR or you just need to go back to her and point out that she was 13 at the time of some of her cv and ask her to clarify the situation. Wording it as ‘there’s looks to be a misalignment of dates’ or something like that. This is due diligence and bit age discrimination!!

I don’t think you could leave school and go straight to a job, my son was born in 2002 and had to either stay in education until he was 18 or take an apprenticeship.

‘ Not’ age discrimination!

I have spoken to HR. Got the answer I thought I'd get - Dodgy ground as it could be classed as age discrimstion. I said how when the dates don't add up? She told me because you're looking to closely at her age and judging from that fact what she can and can't achieve

I have been advised to not ask her anything else until I speak to someone more senior as it could be again seen as discrimination and I don't have the option to withdraw the offer yet

I have asked to speak to someone more senior. They're in later this afternoon but unsure when. They're going to call. If they don't then I will call again.

I find it bizarre how many people on this thread are conflating 'interviewing well' with 'being suitable for / good at the job'.

They're absolutely not the same thing - a brief glance at the senior management of many organisations will tell you that! 😆

Is it your job to decide who you want working for the company and to go well out of the way to look at someones social media and personal online information past the point of what is legally or professionally required OP? You lost me with the 'look British' rationale either way.

I can't see the purpose of the thread really. You know as much about it as there is possible to know because you've thoroughly investigated this person with a view to get agreement to get rid of her because of the disparity on the CV/age or you'd not be taking it up with HR again and again and digging for further evidence so what can anyone else here add. It is clear what you are trying to do and what outcome you want and that is up to you. I would expect she has a right to understand what personal information you have accessed; will you be pretending you didn't?

Personally I would struggle to find it that exciting. Yes I'd have queried her age with HR but if she is as capable as it seems and interviewed well enough that it was decided she can certainly do the job, then presumably she can or can be let go on probation if not. She is hardly due to be running the country. I'd have let whoever interviewed her know and then they can deal with that.

And even if they don’t specify that a degree is needed, the majority of applicants will be graduates and it’s difficult to imagine they’d actually hire a 16 year old with GCSEs.