New employee is a fake, where to go from here?

[londonnotlangdon]

It's a large organisation and I just had to send off her paperwork, passport, things like that

She was given the job after her second interview last week.

However, she has emailed me these documents (fine), and her birth certificate says born in September 2002?

That makes her 19?

This is a problem because, for example, her CV says she was an Executive Assistant to a Director in 2018? When she would've been in school?!

I've asked HR, who haven't replied properly, I've asked them to call. But someone replied to my email of concern with 'so you don't want this new me ever of staff? Why not?'

What can actually be done about this?

You are not allowed to employ 13/14 yr olds full time during school holidays though.

@londonnotlangdon

"Why is her insta of her then? With that name and a post in 2021 in school uniform titled memories with my girls?"

Clearly this is all drawing conclusions from very little evidence on my part but…

To me it is really old it says "memories with my girls" as to me that is what the teacher/mother or similar person would say, and not one of the group of schoolgirls. So it just seems odd wording that doesn't quite add up either... but maybe that's just me.

Was she taking the photo and the person who looks like her in uniform is in fact her daughter? How similar is the face?

The problem is it’s fraud. People may do it but if found out it can be serious. Someone in 2010 was imprisoned for CV fraud. ‘Everyone does it’ wouldn’t be a defence either.

CV Fraud Case

Then there’s the fact that if someone is willing to lie about this, what else will they lie about during their employment. What else will they embellish or cover up. We have to do yearly counter-fraud training and in the examples of past cases a lot of the time the lies go deep, sometimes starting from the point of employment.

In case people can’t see the link:

The reputational impact is becoming increasingly important as more cases are finding their way to the courts. In 2010, Rhiannon McKay was convicted of CV fraud and sentenced to six months’ in prison after falsely claiming to have two A-levels and forging a letter of recommendation.In 2017, Jon Andrewes was sentenced to two years in prison after falsifying his qualifications to secure a job as a senior NHS manager.

People embellish their CVs ALL THE TIME in order to secure an interview. It sounds like that’s what has happened, and at interview it was decided she was suitable for the job. So the problem is…?

Wording your CV in such a way as to make sure your experience comes across in its best light is normal. Outright lies are not normal, and in most organisations would lead to dismissal for gross misconduct/fraud if discovered further down the line.

Girls refer to their friends as their girls all the time, my niece does it.

Thinking positively - maybe she was a PA etc to a family member during holidays as first role or something? And once you’ve had one role it’s easy to get the next, maybe they weren’t as diligent as you! I think a frank chat is the only way you’re doing to find out!

She's used someone else's cv surely and didn't click to change dates

As someone in a senior recruitment role, what I find most baffling is that your screening/HR team haven't asked for a gap reference? If no current reference is available, she needs to supply you with a P45/P60 or banks statements as a minimum to cover that time period and prove she was receiving a salary from the company she claims. This is quite common practice these days and if someone can't/won't provide that info, the offer is sadly withdrawn on grounds of failed referencing.

But literally thousands of people will have been educated at that school. To breach Data Protection you have to use personal identifiable data under specific categories without the consent of the data subject, or for a purpose other than that which consent was given.

None of that applies as the info does not identify the data subject and is not in a specified category.

My first school was Gills Hill Primary in Radlett, my best friend there was Sara, and I was always jealous of her plastic dolls house in the shape of a tree.
I don't think that breaches Sara's DP (in fact I know it doesn't).

Have you approached her about it? Hi So-and-so, just want to clarify a couple of details. Your birth certificate says you were born in 2002. Is that correct?"
She either has to come up with an explanation or admit it doesn't square with the work history!

If she was born in 2002, she wouldn’t leave education at 16, they are not allowed to leave ft education until 18, so either 6th form, apprenticeship or college. Something doesn’t add up here. Have you asked her?

People keep posting stuff like this but "not allowed" is meaningless - there are zero checks on this, nobody enforces it at all and nobody follows it up. So it might be "not allowed" but it is perfectly possible to leave school at 16, get a job and just live your life without any interference from anyone. Students leave college for employment all the time and nothing is ever done about it.

OP, you need to stop this right now and start dealing with it professionally at work, rather than continuing the saga here for the benefit of Mumsnetters. Sharing information was a terrible idea, but also, you don’t need the advice of internet strangers or even extensive googling. You need to speak to HR and your boss and get on with it.

If someone from your workplace gets hold of this thread it will be you facing disciplinary measures.

This seems fairly clear cut to me.

She has provided genuine ID documents, because she’d be stupid not to, and wouldn’t get paid without a NI number, for instance,

However, the work experience on her CV is entirely fabricated. I would suspect that there are people on the web offering advice on how to achieve this sort of thing.

Two employers who everyone knows can’t be contacted for a reference. Good choice if you’re making it up. However, now you know she was still a child when she supposedly worked there, it’s clearly nonsense.

One employer who can be contacted, but at an email address which isn’t the genuine email for the company. So someone else (probably the applicant) has posed as that company’s representative and provided a fake reference.

That last one is fraud, and would be reason on its own to withdraw the offer.

I expect that people like this bank on nobody looking too closely at the ID documents, or expects the person who does look at them to be HR and not the person who interviewed. In which case, the discrepancy wouldn’t be noticed.

OP, you can’t confirm her in this job now. Go higher in HR, or to a director if you have to. But make sure you don’t employ a liar, and an inexperienced one at that.

I think she has lied on her CV and is hoping that the discrepancies wont be noticed.

This is almost certainly the truth of it. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

She is hoping that because a faceless HR department usually deal with identity checks rather than the person who does interviews, her DoB won't be compared with what she has claimed on her CV and at interview.

Why are people trying so hard to think of reasons for her unlikely job history given her young age. She has obviously lied on her CV. It's not that uncommon. She has even apparently worked at companies that have gone under so it is harder to check.

I have to admit the HR department here don't sound great and this does sound like something they should be checking and dealing with.

If I was OP I'd be sending e-mails to HR deatiling my concerns and trying to get them to repond in writing - or if they phone have meeting do an e-mail of what was dissused and decided and keep a copy - so OP has her back covered if things do go south.

All of this before reaching the grand old age of 19?!

OP, you can’t confirm her in this job now. Go higher in HR, or to a director if you have to. But make sure you don’t employ a liar, and an inexperienced one at that.

And I agree with this. It doesn't matter how good her interview was - employing someone who demonstrates dishonesty at this early stage is always going to be a bad idea.

1- contact her reference directly. Phone the company and make sure they exist.

2- contact school and verify GCSE results and years of attendance.

3- check Insta profile. Is it genuine or created for this persona.

Nothing surprises me what people will embellish after watching years of The Apprentice!
What you REALLY need to do is get her and Claude in the same room...that'll winkle her lies out
👹😀

I'm posting as I'm reading but there's also voice a 19yo rarely sounds like someone mid 30s especially with all the social media-driven expressions nowadays many safe for work so that wouldn't be an exception

I am not sure if you're joking or not here - but you shouldn't have it on your cv any more.

It would usually go on a separate questionnaire that is only seen by HR along with other data that could end up (even if inadvertently) with a prejudiced selection process (age, ethnicity, disability, etc)

Was the interview process not rigorous enough to establish whether she has the experience and skills she claims to have? I assume there were several applicants and she was the best of the bunch. I can't imagine a teenager getting through the interview process for a £40k job that easily if they had no experience in similar roles. There are so many scenario-type questions ("tell us about a time X happened and how you dealt with it...") in every interview, and other questions you'd only know to answer if you know something about the role, it'd be hard to make it all up.

Could she have been talking about school work experience and exaggerating it?