Ukraine Invasion: Part 22

[MagicFox]

Here we are again

@Onceuponatimeinalandfaraway 22:17
@DuncinToffee

re the book burning, removing the word UKraine from school books: This is from the Ria Novosky article Once was referring to.

However, in addition to the above mentioned, a significant part of the masses, which are passive Nazis, accomplices of Nazism, are also guilty. They supported and indulged Nazi government. The just punishment of this part of the population is possible only as bearing the inevitable hardships of a just war against the Nazi system, waged as carefully and prudently as possible in relation to civilians. Further denazification of this mass of the population consists in re-education, which is achieved by ideological repression (suppression) of Nazi attitudes and strict censorship: not only in the political sphere, but also necessarily in the sphere of culture and education.
ccl.org.ua/en/news/ria-novosti-has-clarified-russias-plans-vis-a-vis-ukraine-and-the-rest-of-the-free-world-in-a-program-like-article-what-russia-should-do-with-ukraine-2/

Oh crikey so chemical attack in Odessa tonight, mass shelling of civilian buildings in luhansk and a bunch of buildings “biolabs” near the polish border. I fucking hope not but I won’t be one bit surprised if that’s what we wake up to tomorrow :-(

Thanks ScrollingLeaves and onceuponatime, I tried looking for the posts on the previous thread but the new search option is a pain to use.

Very chilling indeed

Who can believe 2022 has turned into this?

Meanwhile in Russia

Putin is celebrating Orthodox Easter alongside the mayor of Moscow, Sergei Sobyanin, who he normally does this with instead of the actual family he doesn’t acknowledge in public

Max Seddon

DuncinToffee · 23/04/2022 23:18

Meanwhile in Russia

Putin is celebrating Orthodox Easter alongside the mayor of Moscow, Sergei Sobyanin, who he normally does this with instead of the actual family he doesn’t acknowledge in public

Max Seddon

A bit like the Christening scene in The Godfather.

@ScrollingLeaves thsnks for finding it and posting it again.

considering it was translated at the start of the month I had been hoping most of it wouldn’t come to pass while recognising that was the justification for the indiscriminate civilian killing. I’ve now lost the hope that there would be any reigning in of it.

The stories coming out of occupied areas are devastating too. The people actually taken to Russia, I wonder if we have satellite images of where they went or anything.

there is so much mess to sort out after the Russian army are kicked out of Ukraine. I can’t imagine what it was like rebuilding after ww2. it’s not as bad yet as it’s only one country but Seeing Mariupol images I think the whole world will be set back a few decades in development because of this bloody idiotic man in Russia.

This Guardian article reveals shocking information about the processing of visas for Ukrainian refugees.

The vis applications are being handled by a private company.
The people processing the visas are given three hours training. They often don’t know what they are doing and receive no help.

In four or five cases a day all the members of a family get a visa except for one child.

The whistleblower suspects there is a deliberate policy to limit the numbers.

This is such nasty, appalling gaslighting by the government both of refugees in a desperate situation waiting for visas, and for U.K. families waiting to receive them.

What ever the other refugee difficulties discussed recently on this thread, and the evident lack of provision and thought about how to look after the refugees, which is bad enough, the lying and disingenuousness about these visas is intolerable.

Imagine refusing one child out of a family?

See below:

Homes For Ukraine whistleblower says UK refugee scheme is ‘designed to fail’ | Ukraine | The Guardian

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/23/homes-for-ukraine-whistleblower-says-uk-refugee-scheme-is-designed-to-fail.

Should we all be writing to our MPs?

Thanks for the article, Scrolling. I've fixed the link:
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/23/homes-for-ukraine-whistleblower-says-uk-refugee-scheme-is-designed-to-fail

Nazis
Biolabs
False flags

Same shit, different day

My anger is peak today. Bastards

Late check-in and thanks to all contributors.

Someone mentioned three PMs (Cameron, May and Johnson) had felt we could contain Putin. I lost a load of Saved threads with the upgrade and have been trying to track them down again. One was The Skripal Poisoning one, which I managed to find. Reading it through again was illuminating, I thought, in light of where we are now.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/3187585-Is-there-a-thread-about-the-poisoning-of-Skripal-title-edited-by-MNHQ
(Also, the very obvious presence of the Russian trolls on the thread)

This is just heartbreaking, I have no words.

mobile.twitter.com/myroslavapetsa/status/1517990210017050627?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1517990210017050627%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fworld-europe-61185469

Could I just reiterate the request made on the last thread that if a Twitter link is posted the user gives some idea as to what content the reader is clicking on? Thank you!

@mnhq is is possible to edit the original post to include this request?

Sorry @MagicFox , completely forgot to add a trigger warning. There aren’t any graphic pictures involved, just a picture of that poor 3 month old baby and her mother enjoying their day to day life - photo taken by her husband.

No problem @katem98 - it's just a general reminder

Watching Putin taking mass, how he isn’t terrified for his immortal soul I have no idea because that fucker is going straight to hell!

My MP’s sole interest is in becoming the next Home Secretary. When you question her on these issues, as I have done, you get a single pro-forma answer and then radio silence. It’s a tick box exercise, nothing more. There’s absolutely zero interest in properly addressing these issues. She also supports Boris on every single vote without fail, including voting against continuing free school meals for the most deprived of our children. Arse licking sycophancy at its very finest.

And no, I didn’t vote for her.

Get the salt and spread liberally for this
Canadian Ukrainian Volunteer AT CanadianUkrain1
Lots of updates.

Our forces have regained control over 8 settlements in Kherson region. Russian concentration of manpower and equipment in the area of Kiselivka for an upcoming attack on Posad-Pokrovske was hit. The enemy suffered heavy losses and retreated towards Chornobaivka. The total losses of the enemy are:

70+ personnel, 13 units of equipment, including 2 tanks, one MLRS, 6 units of armored and engineering equipment and 4 reconnaissance UAVs.

Glory to Ukraine

Also:
Alleged phonecall by Russian solider in Mykolaiv area
Invaders flee from the Mykolaiv region: "There is no one to fight, there are alcoholics"

A military man from the Russian Federation said that Putin's army near Mykolaiv was suffering enormous losses, people were leaving and leaving.

The Russian tanker said that his colleagues near Mykolaiv were either dying or fleeing from here. According to the invader, 7 people remained from his platoon, despite the fact that initially there were 19 of them. In a telephone conversation, the soldier said that reinforcements were not arriving to the Russian army, everyone was just leaving. "Only the most persistent and alcoholics are left here," the rashist said in an audio recording intercepted by the SBU and published on the Telegram channel on April 23.

How much truth to the above?

Well the Russians apparently just lost a large number of officers and 2 generals (plus 1 general seriously injured) around the same area.

We've heard rumours of infighting between Russian troops.

There was another apparently recent phonecall where a Russian said to his wife he was literally going mad from all the attacks.

The Ukrainians keep having big hits at Chornobayivka.

There been insurgency in Kherson reported.

It seems to at least point to a significant problem developing for the Russians in this area. Canadian Ukrainian Volunteer said a few days ago (before the c&c attack) that they were waiting for opportunities to present themselves and hinted at something in the pipeline.

With the C&C gone, you might well expect a large breakdown in solider discipline to occur. And potential desertations of posts. Both of the above are consistent with other information we seem to have.

So I would tend to lean towards this having some potential substance and think this is worth keeping an eye on now.

With respect, if something says 'heartbreaking i have no words' or there is no explanation and you are feeling sensitive, perhaps don't click the link... You are responsible for whether you click on links here as much as anywhere else. No one forces you to. Its effectively clickbait. And if you are being sensible you should be wary of links for internet security reasons too.

It is getting a bit silly to hound people to explain everything - i certainly don't think that link was particularly bad. We see pictures of victims of all sorts every day in the tabloid press and dont have trigger warnings.

People have different levels of what they think is upsetting. I generally wont post links to pics of kids, dead bodies (unless there is a valid journalist value to it and then will put a warning) or POWs myself but thats my view and I don't think its enforcable to criticise none graphic content constantly. People will ignore it or won't have seen previous messages.

Its not reasonable to expect MNHQ to label every link and its more likely to result in MNHQ saying they cannot support the topic because of the involvement from them its requiring.

Just be sensible and think about what you are doing rather than expecting everyone else to take that responsibility and protect you instead.

I have just recovered from my battle with the Home Office (31 days to get 5 visas through and an epic amount of chasing) and tbh I am sceptical of the idea that the government is deliberately withholding one visa in a family group to stop the family travelling. I think people who think it’s deliberate are just underestimating how unbelievably incompetent and what a culture of covering up the Home Office has.
It’s designed to fail in the much broader sense that if you set up a scheme in the full knowledge of how incapable the system will be to manage it, you are making a choice at that point for it to be crap. You don’t need to make special rules to slow things down even further.
Helpline staff are most definitely giving out inaccurate information, that became clear in the first week.

It’s human nature to look for patterns and I have seen people in the visa Facebook groups come up with all kinds of theories as to why their visas aren’t through when others are: discrimination against families, discrimination against single people, discrimination by social class. The reality is it’s all just a muddle.

Cock up or conspiracy? Probably more than a bit bit of both.

@RedToothBrush I wasn't talking about that particular link, I just meant that generally it's useful (over and above whether the content is upsetting ) if there's an overview! It also means you don't have to click to another site necessarily (depending on what the thread is about)

@RedToothBrush I'm also not asking @mhhq to label every link - I asked if I could edit my OP to put the reminder in

Hanlons Razor applies.

I know of visa applications still ongoing after 35 days and ones issued in 5 days on a bank holiday week.

What I'm hearing anecdotally is more recent applications have been smoother and I THINK our local council have let up on the home checks (think previously visit had to be prior to visas issued and gas safety and dbs done - its now looking like they are doing some of this retrospectively if hosts have other active dbs in the system).

I think there's definitely been a speeding up. This isn't a symptom of setting up a system designed to fail. Its someone trying to fix problems that have been cited. (Whether this is actually a good idea and undermines concerns that have also been raised about safeguarding is another story)

It also perhaps is reflective of who is coming. More complex and difficult cases - people who are more likely to be particularly traumatised are less likely to apply for the British scheme because of the visa requirements and because they cannot provide relevant paperwork. Those that did early on, were caught in the mess. Those in similar positions later on, were put off by the stories.

As i say there does seem to be a class element emerging locally too. I don't know if its true everywhere but its more middle class Ukrainians coming to the uk.
Its certainly not a hard and fast rule, but like anything accessing beaucracy is something that tends to lend itself more to more privileged / educated groups.

Tbh honest the question that other thread raised for me was about whether people were setting house rules / expectations out early on. It strikes me, this oversight may be one beyond government (its actually advised i believe).