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Ukraine Invasion: Part 22

1000 replies

MagicFox · 23/04/2022 10:06

Here we are again

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
TargusEasting · 23/04/2022 17:09

www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/22/france-sending-heavy-weapons-significant-equipment-to-ukraine

Although some countries such as the US have been quick to respond, others – notably EU heavyweight Germany – fear further antagonising Moscow by delivering more powerful arms for Ukraine.

“There is no textbook for this situation where you can look up at what point we will be seen as party to the conflict,” Chancellor Olaf Scholz told weekly Der Spiegel on Friday.

But he added Germany would replace Soviet-made weapons sent to Ukraine from eastern NATO and EU allies, including Slovenia, with new German-made ones.

“This is a debate that goes to the heart of Germany’s political life. It’s a sovereign choice that belongs to Germany and we respect it,” Macron was quoted as saying, adding he recently spoke to Scholz.

“We have the same strategy as the chancellor, which is to say that we will aid the Ukrainians as much as possible, but must be careful never to become parties to the conflict.”

Scholz on Friday hit back against accusations his centre-left Social Democrats have been too lenient towards Russia, as critics accuse Berlin of dragging its feet on deliveries of heavy weapons to Ukraine.

Opponents have confronted his Social Democratic Party (SPD) with a “distorted and slanderous depiction” of its Russia policy, Scholz said in an interview with German weekly Spiegel. “That annoys me,” he said, adding the SPD was “bound into the Western and transatlantic alliance”.

Germany has come under fire for refusing to directly send heavy weapons to Ukraine, even as allies such as the US, Britain, Czech Republic, and the Netherlands up their deliveries.

Much of the criticism has been directed at Scholz, who has faced pressure even from his two junior coalition partners to take tougher action.
But the government has said after decades of chronic underinvestment, the German army, called the Bundeswehr, is simply not in a position to send the weapons Ukraine wants.

The potential to send arms to Ukraine from the stocks of the Bundeswehr had been “largely exhausted”, Scholz said in the interview.

“What is still available will absolutely still be delivered,” Scholz said, naming anti-tank weapons and artillery munitions.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/04/2022 17:13

Thank you.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/04/2022 17:19

@PaperTyger · 23/04/2022 13:07

I've just read that France, Italy And German firm's all sold arms to Russia last month inspite of a ban since Crimea.
I just despair I really do.

Do you suppose it was because old contracts that are supposed to be honoured are involved?

This seems outrageous none the less.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 17:19

Tim White AT TWMCltd
Today's planned evacuation of residents in Mariupol' has been abandoned. At the shopping centre gathering point firing began.

Russia is blaming rockets fired from the Azovstal plant, occupied by #Ukraine's resistance.

Absolute fury with this "Russian deceit" in Mariupol'

Evacuees were told to disperse by Russian troops because "there will be shelling" - there was none.

At about the same time Russian buses turned up just 200m away.

The Mariupol' refugees boarded - only to be told after the buses departed, that they were heading to Dokuchaevsk, which is in occupied Donetsk region.

No-one was allowed off the buses which refused to stop until they reached their destination.

Another load of kidnappings.

TargusEasting · 23/04/2022 17:22

www.reuters.com/world/us-rapidly-developed-ghost-drones-ukraine-pentagon-says-2022-04-21/

According to the CIA, the Donbas region is similar to Kansas. Generally flatter than elsewhere. Similar to the top levels of Salisbury Plain.

blueshoes · 23/04/2022 17:38

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 17:19

Tim White AT TWMCltd
Today's planned evacuation of residents in Mariupol' has been abandoned. At the shopping centre gathering point firing began.

Russia is blaming rockets fired from the Azovstal plant, occupied by #Ukraine's resistance.

Absolute fury with this "Russian deceit" in Mariupol'

Evacuees were told to disperse by Russian troops because "there will be shelling" - there was none.

At about the same time Russian buses turned up just 200m away.

The Mariupol' refugees boarded - only to be told after the buses departed, that they were heading to Dokuchaevsk, which is in occupied Donetsk region.

No-one was allowed off the buses which refused to stop until they reached their destination.

Another load of kidnappings.

Utterly heartbroken for the Mariupol evacuees. This really is a kidnapping by criminal gangs.

Igotjelly · 23/04/2022 17:43

Oh no the evacuation of Mariupol today has been cancelled. Fuck sakes man someone give these poor people a break!

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 17:44

⚡️Turkey has closed its airspace to Russian civilian and military aircraft that transports soldiers to Syria after notifying Moscow:

Igotjelly · 23/04/2022 17:45

blueshoes · 23/04/2022 17:38

Utterly heartbroken for the Mariupol evacuees. This really is a kidnapping by criminal gangs.

Fucking Russian bastards!

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 17:52

No surprise Lg they are absolute bastards.

I do feel some of the shock is wearing off the more atrocities happen (not on here) but we must always remind ourselves this must never become "normal" or remotely accepted the longer it continues. I'm not talking about us on here but generally. I'm seeing elsewhere "why don't they just surrender" "they're going to drag us all into it" etc etc.

Just to verify I don't mean anyone on these threads, this is the one place I can come to for balance, reason and trust

videokilledtheradiostar1 · 23/04/2022 17:58

Have never posted on these threads but have been following throughout.
I have nothing useful to contribute and still have a range of emotions (mostly anger) but my disbelief has gone. My, 'surely that would never happen...' has vanished completely as I feel anything could happen.
I thank all the contributors for the links they have posted. I have learnt a fair bit about war and history through following these threads and reading the links and articles.
Who knows how all of this will end...

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 18:03

Turkey move is interesting. The Russians have been going most places via Turkey....

Ijsbear · 23/04/2022 18:08

Dry comment from someone on Twitter.

Is it more dangerous to be a Russian oligarch or a Russian General?

Dead oligarchs since Jan 22
Sergey Protosenya
Vladislav Avaev
Vasily Melnikov
Mikhail Watford
Alexander Tyulyakov
Leonid Shulman

Deceased Generals
Magomed Tushayev
Andrey Sukhovetsky
Vitaly Gerasimov
Andrei Kolesnikov
Yakov Rezantsev
Vladimir Frolov

  • 2 from the command post.

The command post deaths edge towards Generalship being the more dangerous; plus reports of Purges for lack of effectiveness in lower command ranks.

Isn't it ironic when corruption and bad training, poor communications and poor equipment lead to defeat ... and then you get purged.

DuncinToffee · 23/04/2022 18:12

Oliver Carroll

Ukraine’s General Staff says Russia now getting ready for a ground assault on Severodonetsk, a large town in Luhansk region that has been a significant target for some time
twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1517911035663069184?t=lsGdRlsi515hgoQUpZb8eA&s=19

DuncinToffee · 23/04/2022 18:29

Zelensky giving a press conference in a Kyiv metro station as we speak. Says war will go down in history for harshness: “In terms of Russia’s military yobbery, violence, rape — no other country has seen it. And I hope will never see it. We Ukrainians taking brunt for the world.”

twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1517917860340899841?t=_0u5JONkPBVCH6T2MeuM7Q&s=19

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 18:31

Zelensky throwing serious shade tonight:
“You know they (Russians) used to talk about their biggest dream: to see Paris and die… their dream now is to steal a toilet and die"

I mean....he's summed it up there!

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 18:33

Jimmy AT JimmySecUk
In his press conference Zelensky announces he's meeting US Secretary of State Blinken and US Secretary of Defense Austin who will arrive in Kyiv tomorrow.

Wow. Thats bold.

No travelling incognito then?!

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 23/04/2022 18:34

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 18:33

Jimmy AT JimmySecUk
In his press conference Zelensky announces he's meeting US Secretary of State Blinken and US Secretary of Defense Austin who will arrive in Kyiv tomorrow.

Wow. Thats bold.

No travelling incognito then?!

No Biden though.

MagicFox · 23/04/2022 18:35

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 18:33

Jimmy AT JimmySecUk
In his press conference Zelensky announces he's meeting US Secretary of State Blinken and US Secretary of Defense Austin who will arrive in Kyiv tomorrow.

Wow. Thats bold.

No travelling incognito then?!

Gosh, it is. Bold and symbolic

OP posts:
EsmaCannonball · 23/04/2022 18:36

Hands up who knew all the talk of an Easter ceasefire would mean Russia actually stepping up its actions. 🖐

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 18:46

⚡️Ukraine war: Russia investigating reports of SAS 'sabotage' in western Lviv region

DuncinToffee · 23/04/2022 18:49

Both Blinken and Austen, I had read suggestions that one of them was planing the trip but both is very bold indeed

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 18:56

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 18:31

Zelensky throwing serious shade tonight:
“You know they (Russians) used to talk about their biggest dream: to see Paris and die… their dream now is to steal a toilet and die"

I mean....he's summed it up there!

Why Russians steal toilets. A article about sanitation from 2020

A shit Russian problem

EsmaCannonball · 23/04/2022 18:57

I'd predict that Russia was planning a few strikes on Lviv and Kyiv tomorrow (Happy Easter) so maybe announcing the visit of Blinken and Austin is a kind of brinkmanship. Will Russia enjoy the opportunity to sabre-rattle or will they baulk at potentially pissing off the Americans a bit too much?

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