Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 22

1000 replies

MagicFox · 23/04/2022 10:06

Here we are again

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
Igotjelly · 23/04/2022 14:41

Explosions being reported in Dnipro, which I think is currently a centre for the humanitarian effort.

EsmaCannonball · 23/04/2022 14:43

There has been a lot of criticism of Germany's dominance of the EU over the years and its advancement of its own economy at all costs and, despite seeing how keen Ukraine and others are to join, this war isn't exactly making me wish we were tied to EU strategies and backroom quibbling.

blueshoes · 23/04/2022 14:52

EsmaCannonball · 23/04/2022 14:43

There has been a lot of criticism of Germany's dominance of the EU over the years and its advancement of its own economy at all costs and, despite seeing how keen Ukraine and others are to join, this war isn't exactly making me wish we were tied to EU strategies and backroom quibbling.

Based on RedToothBrush's latest post, I don't see Germany enforcing the sanctions against their firms in any meaningful way. What could be the reason for German 'collaboration' with Russia? This is utterly disgraceful and for once, makes me glad that the UK is out of the EU.

Why would EU fast track Ukraine's membership on one hand and then have Germany sabotage Ukraine's fight on the other hand?

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 15:02

Why would EU fast track Ukraine's membership on one hand and then have Germany sabotage Ukraine's fight on the other hand?

Simple.
€€€€€€€€€

See Turkey. See Israel.

Tessi · 23/04/2022 15:06

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 15:02

Why would EU fast track Ukraine's membership on one hand and then have Germany sabotage Ukraine's fight on the other hand?

Simple.
€€€€€€€€€

See Turkey. See Israel.

This!

BreadInCaptivity · 23/04/2022 15:06

Checking in

blueshoes · 23/04/2022 15:11

So I see that it is for €€€.

But why doesn't Germany sell food rations to Ukraine then? What is the thinking behind that?

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 15:11

Daniel Szeligowski AT danielszeligoeski
One of the most profound changes resulting from the Russian invasion on Ukraine will be reorientation of Ukrainian foreign policy from being largely Germany-oriented towards CEE-oriented. I suspect that even German reform advisors would no longer be welcome in Kyiv

Oleska Rusyn AT oleskarusyn
Unfortunately that doesn't rhyme with the EU membership Ukraine aspires. Ukraine had better reorient itself to the USA, the UK, Japan, Korea and Taiwan..

The big money to be made after the war will be in reconstruction. Disaster capitalism. Who do you think is going to be front of the queue?

Also rather cynically, I think that EU membership will be a long way down the road even if fast tracked. It simply won't meet required criteria. UK will step into the void they know will happen. A deal is to be done on food. Biggest problem then is ports. Keeping Odesa is strategically massively important.

Expect more anti air systems being pledged for Odesa and Kyiv after a dire Easter weekend thats expected.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 15:13

blueshoes · 23/04/2022 15:11

So I see that it is for €€€.

But why doesn't Germany sell food rations to Ukraine then? What is the thinking behind that?

They are dependent on Russian gas. No Russian gas. Massive economic downturn.

Ukraine simply isn't worth as much to their economy

Natsku · 23/04/2022 15:21

Wow at Germany etc. selling arms to the Russians. Did they think it wouldn't get found out? Surely they knew how bad it would make them look.

jgw1 · 23/04/2022 15:22

blueshoes · 23/04/2022 14:37

I see. So these firms are splitting hairs to avoid coming within the scope of the sanctions even though there is a likelihood that vehicles for the Russian police will be used by Russian military in the war.

How very cynical. I wonder whether those countries will actually enforce their sanctions against these companies (or at least take them to court).

It is one possible explanation.
The UK has sold Hawk fighter trainers to some fairly dubious regimes, but that is ok, because they were for training, but if of course they happened to be armed with bombs, oh thats a shame.

LoveLarry · 23/04/2022 15:22

cloudberry · 23/04/2022 12:44

I thought this was an interesting Twitter thread about the significance of the Dmitrievsky chemical plant explosion. I have starting using Twitter since this thread started, thanks to links being shared here. This thread comes from within a thread by Trent Telenko. I am still working out who I think is worth following and am aware that there are all sorts of nutters out there ….

twitter.com/spoonamore/status/1517510440598843394?s=21&t=FDCrHnv3ZhF3CGqJ8SPKJA

twitter.com/sergiykyslytsya?s=21&t=EpOKWUC-hBsZjM27_5OGog

Is worth a follow. Ukrainian rep to the UN.

Like a fiercely protective dad with a very nice line in shade

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 23/04/2022 15:24

Ok so this revelation about Germany has been a bit of a nasty surprise. So to be clear...

Germany aren't delivering the weapons they have pledged, are refusing to sell (not even being asked to donate) food to the Ukrainian military, and they aren't following through on sanctions?

If this is true, who will hold Germany to account for this treachery --inaction?

DFOD · 23/04/2022 15:34

Russia have Germany by the short and curlys - totally baked in to the functioning of the German economy.

Russia just have to glance over at Germany trading with or sending aid to Ukraine and they can cut their fuel and collapse the Germany economy overnight.

They are likely one of the to most exposed economies - their feet dragging, silence and lack of action is collusion by stealth.

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 16:08

Germany (their government not the public) are a bloody disgrace

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 23/04/2022 16:14

I understand why Germany want to phase out their dependence on russian gas as opposed to just switching it off overnight. I don't like that decision but I see the logic. But the refusal to sell food to a country who are suffering genocide? No words.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 16:30

Even in western Ukraine its getting tough for food. Prices are going through the roof. Accommodation is hard to come by. Lots don't have access to an airraid shelter (or don't want to use). People are sharing with relatives or friends of friends. I think its being quite over looked as to what will happen when food shortages start to kick in.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 16:35

Just trying to find a good source for this but I've just seen a tweet quoting Ukrainian forces (in Ukrainian) which seems to officially confirm earlier reports that they struck a significant command and control point in Kherson. The Ukrainians are apparently claiming that theyve taken out TWO Russian generals as well as a large number of other officers.

Will link when Ive found original source but I'm fairly confident its legit from where Ive seen it.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 16:39

Eell this will do for now

Kyiv Independent AT kyivindependent
Military intelligence: 2 Russian generals killed near Kherson.

According to Defense Ministry’s Intelligence Directorate, the military hit a Russian command post near occupied regional capital Kherson, allegedly killing two Russian generals and wounding one.

Original source - Defence Intelligence FB page

TiddyTidTwo · 23/04/2022 16:54

Odesa has been hit. Once again, civilian targets, including a 3 month old baby.

Now that the big weapons are finally filtering through I hope to see Russia now being pushed back but it's all too bloody slow.

Didn't Germany also block another EU state from sending weapons? Estonia? Germany will destabilise Europe at this rate. They are a fly in the ointment

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 23/04/2022 16:55

pmk

Not sure it'll help with following the thread since the update. The app on android is unuseable.

notimagain · 23/04/2022 16:55

By way of placemarking a paper from a couple of the people at RUSI on events up until a few days back, if some find the whole paper TL;DR then at least the conclusion (page 18 onwards) might be worth a glance..

static.rusi.org/special-report-202204-operation-z-web.pdf

DFOD · 23/04/2022 17:01

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/putin-merkel-germany-scholz-foreign-policy-ukraine-war-invasion-nord-stream-2/amp/

“BERLIN — Germany is no stranger to the wrong side of history.
That’s why it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Berlin spent the past 16 years with its feet firmly planted on the wrong side of the divide over how to handle Russia.”

TargusEasting · 23/04/2022 17:01

If you like maps and charts for a quick source of info, this link is helpful.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/russia-ukraine-crisis-in-maps-and-charts-live-news-interactive

Updated daily, as at 06:00 hrs today

> Who controls what in Ukraine?
> Who controls what in the Donbas region?
> Who controls what in Mariupol?
> Where are people fleeing to?
> Mapping anti-war protests around the world

Then a further ten maps and charts not updated daily:

  1. Conflict at a glance
  2. History of the USSR
  3. Political leadership Russia v Ukraine
  4. Comparative size Russia v Ukraine
  5. Nato in Europe
  6. Military head to head
  7. Oil and gas resources
  8. Comparative main exports Russia v Ukraine
  9. Reliance by country on Russian oil
  10. Russia's biggest arm's buyers
There are links to deeper articles on each section.
DFOD · 23/04/2022 17:04

DFOD · 23/04/2022 17:01

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/putin-merkel-germany-scholz-foreign-policy-ukraine-war-invasion-nord-stream-2/amp/

“BERLIN — Germany is no stranger to the wrong side of history.
That’s why it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Berlin spent the past 16 years with its feet firmly planted on the wrong side of the divide over how to handle Russia.”

www.politico.eu/article/outrage-germany-ex-chancellor-schroder-gazprom-board-nomination/amp/

Couldn’t make it up

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.