Ukraine Invasion: Part 22

[MagicFox]

Here we are again

@Igotjelly @Ijsbear Thank you both for this. I think I found myself stuck on Twitter after a previous link and that was probably not the smartest move to make. I tend to usually stick to BBC News and this thread and never usually touch twitter - lesson learned!

Here's a video from a couple of days ago showing a Ukrainian Stugna-P team (Stugna-P is a Ukraine made ATGM - not all down to NLAWs etc.) destroying FOUR tanks/armoured vehicles in as many minutes. They are firing at a range of over 2km, if you're in a tank with extremely limited visibility you wouldn't have a clue what is going on.

twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1518654601611956229

It’s easy done. Don’t forget that most people only Tweet for a reaction. The mundane stuff doesn’t get a look in so they have to go big (even if it’s cherry picking content).

@katem98 definitely steer clear of Twitter! @Ijsbear and @Igotjelly thank you for your insight, I’m definitely going to get in the bath with a nice book tonight. I definitely do NOT have a cool head and today has made me very very twitchy. I just don’t understand how we know when they’re being serious in their threats, is there not a risk if we keep dismissing it as bluster? I assume we have satellites etc to keep an eye on any ominous movements with regards to strategic weapons. On a separate note, why is Liz Truss even making this speech this eve?!

We (as in ransoms on Mumsnet) don’t know but I would imagine World leaders have at least an inkling. They aren’t working in the dark and Western intelligence is really top-notch. Demonstrated in how well it’s served the UA forces who have been receiving it.

Kherson. They are still protesting against occupation.

https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1519334513003929607

@Igotjelly one would hope there would be some speedy diplomatic action if things did start to change 😬

I still can’t get over that ridiculous comment Liz Truss made on national TV about supporting UK people wanting to fight in Ukraine.

Given just what Russia's said, and how often, Im not sure why Liz Truss is getting such a hard time.

She's one (rather daft) politician in a country that Russia seems to have a fairly surprising respect for (given how they manipulated our politicians) but it's only one country.

The USA is a far bigger player politically. Germany, France, the UK, Poland are all significant countries at this moment in terms of Ukraine but one over-mouthy politician in one country in this huge political mess is not going to kick off Nuclear Annihilation.

Even Putin isn't that stupid and - he is a trained manipulator who knows what to say to get people to believe him and do what he wants. All the people who've dealt with him directly say that.

Look at his actions not his words!

I have nothing very intelligent to add except I also found today hard (well last few hours). The situation is escalating, politicians are making careless comments and there seems to be no plan to help come to a peaceful agreement. Instead we are sending more arms and goading Putin. I’m scared and even had a thought of cancelling plans to be close to home if it all goes to shit.

We also need to look at where world leaders are. According to his schedule Biden is attending a funeral today and then hosting a dinner. Boris was taking questions in the Commons on Angela Raynor’s legs and Putin was giving a speech away from the Kremlin.

Not one of them is hiding away in a bunker or on a doomsday plane waiting for the boobs to fall….

Or bombs even 😂😂😂😂

@Igotjelly 😂😂😂 wish it were just a case of falling boobs

@Igotjelly Boobs!😂😂

This did go through my mind. I'm sure if they were exceptionally worried they'd be hiding themselves and their families away.

Falling boobs is a separate sort of tragedy I’m dealing with 🤦🏽‍♀️

Well you should have...if you have modern equipment. Modern western tanks are bristling with digital protection - several £m on each tank. Working as a team, when an ATM is fired the aggressor can be pinpointed and incoming fire can be tracked electronically. The tanks' systems will be alerted to destroy both as quickly as possible. The main difference here is the Russian army has tanks that are 40 years out of date and limited protection let alone digitalisation.

@YorkshireLondonMiss · 27/04/2022 17:50

@ScrollingLeaves not that I’m a huge fan but boris came across quite well in his latest comments regarding what we were trying to do in terms of arming Ukraine. He also sort of bigged up Putin suggesting he’s so popular in Russia he has enough room to manoeuvre a withdrawal if he wanted to.

metro.co.uk/2022/04/27/boris-dismisses-nuclear-threat-after-russian-world-war-three-warning-16541557/amp/ 

not sure what people will have to say after putins outburst though today. I’m not sure what he means by interference either as everyone’s been interfering the whole time anyway. How are we meant to know what constitutes interference.

te Boris saying Putin has such overwhelming support in Russia, and given the Russian people do not have any idea what has been happening in Ukraine, Putin has the space to simply say the technical/military operations have been a success, and that would be it.

I think Boris is right. One can only hope Putin thinks of that himself.

@ScrollingLeaves and it’s not like it would be embarrassing for him to withdraw from the perspective of on the world stage as we already all think he’s a knob.

Boris may well be waiting for boobs to fall.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

This is a very good point. I think Liz Truss is as daft as a brush, but I have a tremendous amount of faith in western intelligence. If the boobs were about to fall (😆) I think we would see a big change in the behaviour of western leaders.

it's awful isn't it!

:D

That's a helluvan autocorrect you got there @Igotjelly

😂😂 I feel like it’s a sign for us all to lighten up a little.

In all seriousness it’s obviously a deeply disconcerting time but I genuinely believe this too shall pass and that we shouldn’t play into Putin‘a hands by cowering. The freedom we enjoy is wonderful and we need to appreciate it more, it’s a thing that many are willing to give their very lives for just a taste of.

I can understand how you feel, I felt a bit like this at the beginning when Putin did the whole 'consequences like you've never seen in your history' speech. But I agree with PPs that you have to look at what Putin does and not just at what he says. You also have to double-interpret everything to read how it would sound to a Russian audience- it's not all about threatening the west. It's important to not become complacent about the nuclear threat, but equally, we've trampled over an awful lot of lines that I assumed would be red lines at the beginning and it hasn't really garnered much in the way of a response beyond words.

As far as I know, there has been no shift in Russia's actual preparedness to launch strikes (unless I've missed something!) We would see signs of preparation if there was a serious intention to attack. The situation is worrying, but Putin would love to think that he's messing with heads in the west. So I reckon, keep your plans, enjoy your day and try to see it as a great big middle finger up to him.

It's hopeless. Either face Russia and yes risk a third world war ( we have nukes too Putin) or negotiate with them. Cannot carry on arming and watching Ukraine destroyed in a war of Attrition and threatening us and other countries for involvement.
Boris Johnson and Liz Truss are incompetent and I wish they would just go away with the rest of the Brexiteers. Arseholes!

Nope you haven’t missed anything.

we would see manoeuvring of weapons as a warning long before he ever launched anything. I’m mindful as the 9th May approaches we are likely to see increased bluster but my sense is this is largely for an internal Russian audience.