Health Visitor turned up after I declined appointment

[AliceBeazley]

So, the Health Visitor. I understand it can be a valuable service to some, and it's good we have this available to us if we need it.

That said, I've never really felt the need myself. I had a visit from one once or twice after my first son was born, and she was very nice but it wasn't especially useful and just took up my time when I would rather have been doing something else.

Whenever I've been sent an appointment, I've gone through the checklist and never had any concerns. I've also got various books on child development in the early years and am proactive about checking whether milestones are being met. I've therefore cancelled all HV appointments that have been sent, and other than the office staff seeming a little puzzled, I've never had an issue doing this.

Roll on to baby number 2. I declined the checks from the start, other than arranging for the HV to come and weigh him when he was a few weeks old. When the 1 year check appointment came through I called the office and cancelled again. The woman said she would pass the message on to the HV.

The HV called and left a message to say she had my message and that's fine, but she could come and do another weigh if I wanted to, yada yada yada.

Feeling the matter was resolved, I forgot about it.

This morning the HV turned up at the door for the 9-12 month check. I explained it had been cancelled, and she sort of made noises as if that was a surprise. I said hang on, did you say your name was "Emma", wasn't it you who left a message for me to acknowledge I'd cancelled. She then said "Yes but as I said, it would be nice to meet you both". I said "Well there's lots of people it would be nice to meet, but you can't just turn up at people's doors uninvited". It was this point she obviously could tell I was annoyed at her intrusion and decides to scuttle off again.

I'm pretty annoyed by this to be honest. She knew I wasn't interested but she tried to disregard my wishes and try and come in anyway. I know a lot of people think HV appointments are mandatory and they don't do anything to point out the contrary. I feel like she just wanted to railroad me into letting her in whether I wanted to see her or not. This tactic probably works on some. I have to say I find it quite disturbing that someone acting on behalf of a government funded organisation can decide to turn up at your house and ask to see your children and intrude upon your privacy without any mandate or justification. As if the state knows better than me and I am unable to opt out.

Am I being unreasonable? I feel like complaining about this as its a complete overstep. I've no idea who to complain to or if it would even do any good. I'd appreciate other's thoughts on it. TIA.

"IF OP or her baby were not OK, then I'm sure she would have contacted someone. "

You can't categorically state this.

Britain is a liberal democracy. We believe people are free, and that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Common error. We have a presumption of innocence, not a belief. That means that we recognise that the person concerned may actually be guilty but they can't be convicted of an offence unless they admit it or a court decides their guilt has been proved beyond reasonable doubt. No-one seriously doubts, for instance, that Ian Brady killed Keith Bennett, even though he was never convicted.

If all professionals like HVs worked on the basis of a belief that none of the children they encounter could be abused, they would be seriously negligent. They are not only entitled to investigate if there are signs indicative of possible neglect or abuse, they are under a duty to do so.

Try failing to get your child into school when they are a bit older and you will see just how much is voluntary! You will face fines and possibly even jail. You could home school but the council will check on you.

Having a child involves a huge amount of responsibility and obligation. These rules are to protect them - the child! It’s not all about you.

Middle class women can also be abusers. Anyone can. Sometimes it might even be because the mother is struggling. A HV might be able to offer much-needed support.

Some HVs are better than others but let them in to do their job! Hopefully within an hour their mind will be put at rest. Or you could go on raising all sorts of red flags. Why would you want to do that?

Maybe not, but you cannot categorically state that because she's not let the HV in she's an abuser.

If I have another child there is no way I'll be wasting my time with an HV.

I do think there's a lot of performative 'safeguarding' theatre at the moment.

The truth is that social work is chronically underfunded and dangerously understaffed, with many unfilled vacancies and high sickness absence (awfully stressful job).

This government doesn't care about child abuse or deaths.

Anyone who does care about child abuse and deaths should focus on the core issue - there is no social work service anymore.

Voluntary HV visits are total bollocks, this is just a sop to make it appear 'something' is being done.

We do not investigate until there is evidence a crime has been committed.

Choosing not to use a voluntary service is no indication anything is amiss.

Comparing a parent who doesn't want a HV visit to Ian Brady is plain weird.

Generally speaking I'm someone whose not too fond of health visitor appointments. With my first i found them overbearing, pushy damaging my mental health. With my second they were a god send. With my third I didn't really use them but did the statutory checks as a routine although I didn't feel I needed them and come the 2 year check actually knew more than the HV about certain things. However, I just think that doing the statutory checks as a box ticking exercise keeps you in the category of engaging and them leaving you alone, but they're there if you need them. Ignoring everything will likely result in them checking from a safeguarding perspective.

I hope the OP doesn’t have a car. Because, you know, you do legally have to have an MOT.

A child is a much, much bigger responsibility. What’s the harm in a health check?

Avoid all the checks you want for yourself but it’s not about you. This check is about the child - an individual separate from yourself!

I think HV services are technically optional, but having occasional health/social professional eyes on your baby isn't. If you had a social worker visiting regularly, or you attended regularly at baby clinic, or baby was unwell and seeing lots of health professionals, the HV would probably be happy to step back and not get involved. If no one is seeing the baby, someone has to, and that responsibility lies with the health visiting service.

The difference is obvious - you legally have to have an MOT.

The HV service is optional. Optional means it is is up to the parent.

If you want an MOT for children (weird and wasteful) campaign for a law change.

Too many children have slipped through the cracks recently, especially with covid. Many children haven't been seen in person for over two years. They're absolutely right to turn up on the doorstep of someone who declines multiple visits.

Health Visitors should be there to support and help mothers and not some sort of surveilance team looking to report people to SS without any evidence. The service IS optional and if they threaten to report you to SS if you refuse to see them then an official complaint should be made. OP if they send SS round then you should definitely make a complaint.

I found my HV shit, all she cared about was how my baby was fitting on a chart - mind you it was the same when I was pregnant, I got an independent midwife in the end the service was so bad. There's no looking at the individual or listening to them, it's just 'do your numbers fit on our chart' - I had a low BMI so had to have extra scans because they were concerned I wasn't eating (I've always been skinny and ended up having an over 9lb baby) I wasn't allowed to give birth in a unit because I went over my due dates (as they wouldn't listen to the date I conceived which I knew as I charted temps, they only wanted my LMP even though I told them I had 40 day cycles). They're just not interested in anyone as an individual. Getting the independent midwife changed everything, it was completely different and hugely positive experience.

A very interesting article here by AIMS, particularly the section 'Help mothers, protect babies' where it talks about an often quoted bit of research that found HV visits reduced reports of child abuse as well as drug, alcohol and criminal problems, numbers of future births and use of food stamps. But this was not from the sort of rubbishy HV checking up on your baby visits we get here - in that case an interdisciplinary developmental agency offered a personal life development programme for each mother, helping mothers to work on their own goals, build up confidence, and helping them obtain access to education and employment.

That's what we need to be offering new parents, not some snooping women looking for issues so she can report you to SS if you don't do exactly what she says. It's sad that so many people think that is the answer IMO,

Sorry article didn't attach

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/health-visitors-or-health-police#:~:text=A%20health%20visitor%20has%20no,of%20them%20at%20any%20time.

There is sometimes harm in the 'health check' imo. A lot of hv have very poor communication skills and make women who are at their most vulnerable feel judged and very uncomfortable in what should be the safety of their own homes.

I think the clunky and 'insisting' approach alienates people who might otherwise have called upon them if they struggled further down the line.

in one of the awful recent child murder cases the parents told a social worker the child could not be seen because it had Covid. The real reason was the child was covered in bruises and dying. Abusive (and abused) parents do lie, and not all abusive ( or abused) parents are poor and inarticulate, many present as competent and articulate as the OP clearly does.The health visitor did the right thing, for the child, and for herself, imagine having to give evidence in a court , being asked by a barrister why you didn’t check on Child X and having to admit you didn’t because Mummy X came across as competent and knowledgeable over the phone….…

YABVU, of course. I draw your attention to today's newspapers. Stop being deliberately obtuse.

Why do people think social services as soon as safeguarding is mentioned? It’s like when a poster on here asks whether they should say something to school about a child, and they get responses like ‘keep your sticky beak out, how would you like it if social services visited you and took your child away’

You are incorrect - but this is what people are lead to believe. If there is nothing to suggest there is a problem then there is no reason you should have to see an HV or anyone else (see the AIMS article above). In the child abuse cases that have lead to death there was often a lot of evidence - neighbours or family members reporting things, a and e visits etc. When there is no evidence to suggest that there is a problem there is no reason you should have to see an HV. It's not 'technically optional' as that doesn't even make sense. Something is either optional or it is. And in the case of HV visits they ARE optional.

The law could be changed to make HV visits compulsory but unless these visits led to proper support for mothers as in the AIMS report then they're probably a waste of time.

All these people saying it’s about safeguarding!!
I can tell you not one health visitor bothered to see me or my baby during the pandemic except one initial weigh. It was absolutely shocking. My DD still hasn’t seen anyone since she was 7 days old and she is 18m now!

I think you would be unreasonable to complain as she turned up but you sent her away, but I will be declining HVs for further children too as they are as useful as a chocolate teapot.

What a lowlife fucking bitch! 😡 I would have loved to have left a bruise on her!
Well that of course makes you sound like a calm and rational person....

I suspect if they were to make HV mandatory they'd have to increase funding. So that will never happen.

HVs are well aware that child abuse and domestic violence isn’t confined to one class. HVs hold a caseload of families and even if you refuse their service you are still on their caseload. If anything awful were to happen, the HVs are called to account for why a child hadn’t been seen. Therefore HVs make every effort to see children on their caseload. A lot of their time is wasted with trying to see families who are reluctant to engage. Unfortunately it’s impossible to tell which children are at risk without seeing them.

I really do hope that you do not make a complaint. The HV service is invaluable and as many others have said it's also a safeguarding issue. For you to be mildly inconvenienced because you know what you're doing is not an excuse to complain about somebody doing their job.

For what it's worth, my HV picked up my son's autism very early on and ensured he was assessed quickly and was amazingly supportive throughout. I too was an experienced parent with a child in her teens when my second was born, yet that hadn't occurred to me. Had she not been so on the ball, we might have been in a very different situation to the one we're in now.

The thing is, though, that repeated refusal of HV visits may in itself suggest there is a problem. Visiting is a perfectly reasonable response in that event.

A lot of things like this are optional, but that doesn't mean that alarm bells won't ring if your persistently refuse them.

I'm reminded of a recentish court case about home education when a parent refused to give details to the local authority about the education they were supplying and the progress their child was making. The court said sure, it's optional, but if you don't give that information the local authority is entitled to draw the conclusion that in fact you are not educating your child adequately and proceed to the next enforcement stage.

A million percent agree with this.

I know you may have felt disregarded and annoyed by her unexpected visit but I have to say, I'm glad she did her job thoroughly as this ensures that every child/ren are actually being looked out for and they can feel satisfied that the child/ren are in a safe and secure environment.

It's completely up to you whether you complain or not but I personally would just let this go. Its a different matter entirely, if this were to happen again and they kept ignoring what you've asked etc.