Health Visitor turned up after I declined appointment

[AliceBeazley]

So, the Health Visitor. I understand it can be a valuable service to some, and it's good we have this available to us if we need it.

That said, I've never really felt the need myself. I had a visit from one once or twice after my first son was born, and she was very nice but it wasn't especially useful and just took up my time when I would rather have been doing something else.

Whenever I've been sent an appointment, I've gone through the checklist and never had any concerns. I've also got various books on child development in the early years and am proactive about checking whether milestones are being met. I've therefore cancelled all HV appointments that have been sent, and other than the office staff seeming a little puzzled, I've never had an issue doing this.

Roll on to baby number 2. I declined the checks from the start, other than arranging for the HV to come and weigh him when he was a few weeks old. When the 1 year check appointment came through I called the office and cancelled again. The woman said she would pass the message on to the HV.

The HV called and left a message to say she had my message and that's fine, but she could come and do another weigh if I wanted to, yada yada yada.

Feeling the matter was resolved, I forgot about it.

This morning the HV turned up at the door for the 9-12 month check. I explained it had been cancelled, and she sort of made noises as if that was a surprise. I said hang on, did you say your name was "Emma", wasn't it you who left a message for me to acknowledge I'd cancelled. She then said "Yes but as I said, it would be nice to meet you both". I said "Well there's lots of people it would be nice to meet, but you can't just turn up at people's doors uninvited". It was this point she obviously could tell I was annoyed at her intrusion and decides to scuttle off again.

I'm pretty annoyed by this to be honest. She knew I wasn't interested but she tried to disregard my wishes and try and come in anyway. I know a lot of people think HV appointments are mandatory and they don't do anything to point out the contrary. I feel like she just wanted to railroad me into letting her in whether I wanted to see her or not. This tactic probably works on some. I have to say I find it quite disturbing that someone acting on behalf of a government funded organisation can decide to turn up at your house and ask to see your children and intrude upon your privacy without any mandate or justification. As if the state knows better than me and I am unable to opt out.

Am I being unreasonable? I feel like complaining about this as its a complete overstep. I've no idea who to complain to or if it would even do any good. I'd appreciate other's thoughts on it. TIA.

Just noticed your "this tactic works on some" comment....again evidence of your notion of yourself as more clever than most, certainly than the likes of 'scuttling' health visitors. I don't care who you are of what you do, the wise person knows how little they know. And in this particular realm, there are so many people who know more than you, not just from study but from real life experience of observing and interacting with hundreds of children and families. Why wouldn't someone want to take advantage of, or at least go along with the supports, the different set of eyes provided by the state WHICH ARE FOR THEIR CHILDS BENEFIT.

I do think there's a lot of performative 'safeguarding' theatre at the moment.

To be fair, a lot of safeguarding is performative. It was made very clear to me during training that the real value of DBS checks are that they deter criminals from applying for jobs in the first place as opposed to actually catching someone with a criminal record.

Part of what makes these systems effective is people knowing that they will be observed. In the same way that we put up with cctv because we know that we will want it if we are the victim of a crime - just knowing that the system is there IS a big part of why the system works.

It's one thing wanting to steer your own course. It's quite another to be so rude and dismissive. I've had some great advice and help from Health Visitors because they are trained professionals who have a wealth of knowledge and experience. They answered all my (sometimes stupid) questions without batting an eyelid and with great insight. Maybe you don't have any questions or feel you need any advice but they do know more than you, no matter how bloody marvellous you think you are.

I agree with pp about the use of the word 'scuttle' to describe a professional woman trying to carry out her job. Demeaning and unnecessary.

@TalkingCat

I would complain to her higher ups. She has over-ridden your wishes. This is partly why I am so grateful my country don't have these 'HV's. They seem very worthless and nothing but intrusive and superfluous. If it's not compulsory, and it doesn't seem like it is, you have to right to say NO and to remove yourself from the programme. And they should respect your wishes and not bully you. She clearly thinks your requests for no further visits didn't apply to her. sigh.

Yes I agree. Go straight to the top and complain to police, queen and god

I’m sure some parents on here might be shocked how much safeguarding information there will be on their children once they go to school. There is a reason homeschooling can be used for the wrong reasons and to ensure a child is under the radar.

100,000 children have gone ‘missing’ and not returned to school since lockdown

I’d have thought it was pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that opting out would be seen as suspicious.

I had one that kept turning up unannounced and had a fit if we were out. She'd say shit above and vaguely threaten SS.

She was super unhelpful never knew anything always wanted to look round the house - which was tidy and clean constant presure to switch to ff and to wean early - for no reason I could see other than it was normal in the area. Also had me take pnd questionaire serveral times then accused me of lying about answers - despite family and friends having no concerns about me.

I was getting us out the house meeting other mothers and other services made to feel awful by this HV. Infact many groups we at children centers with professional there who could see us interact. It just felt like it was an additional stress on me.

In end family took to coming with me to HV clinic - which she claimed they didn't run despite us finding her there - and she slowly backed off.

The thing is, in many of the cases where children died, Children’s Services were already (rightly) heavily involved and that's why the authorities are criticised. Even in the case of Dylan in Wales there was misunderstanding from the authorities about the powers they actually already had given the reports of concerns.

We do have to be careful to suggest that opting out of a supposedly voluntary state service should be seen as suspicious in itself because there really is a slippery slope towards things like mandatory nurseries etc.

How on earth did you think it would look if you cancelled every appointment. Sorry but you come across as a bit of a gobshite.

Mandatory nurseries?! Given how little funding there is for childcare I don’t think we are in danger of that

The health visitors are an OPTIONAL service. It's like the dentist - if you ring up to cancel your appointment you would hardly expect them to turn up on your doorstep. It would be considered inappropriate and weird. In most areas, if you opt out of the health visiting service (as I did for my last child except for the three developmental reviews) then they simply leave you alone and that's that. It's perfectly normal and acceptable to opt out. It's not suspicious or weird.

You can also opt back in to the HV system or go to HV drop-in clinics or go see your GP with your child any time if you have a concern. There's nothing wrong with opting not to see the health visitors.

@Organictangerine

True about the funding, but in France (as someone else pointed out), school is mandatory from 3 so it's not like it could never happen...

YANBU. I declined all HV visits as well.

Yes and France as we know it is a hotbed of state intervention and big government…

I’ve also noticed some MN posters avoid the health visitor so they don’t have to address their baby’s lack of weight gain. Which is a concern.

@Organictangerine seen as every child is eligible for 15 hours childcare from age 3, why not make that mandatory? Or seen as suspicious if you decline it or don't use your hours etc. Making every child go to their 15 hours from 3 might mean more safeguarding concerns are caught early but that has to be balanced with the fact that we are meant to be a free society.

No, not like that. What genuine, sensible reason would any normal person have to refuse to allow a health professional to see their child?
oh I don’t know but off the top of my head,
because the health visitor has attitudes that upset you (Eg suggesting that circumcising your child might help them “fit in” with the local Muslim community because they assume your husband is from that community 🙄)
because the HV didn’t recognise your child’s difficulties till you were already accessing consultants and then minimised all concerns.....
because you have in excess of ten medical appointments teach month and think another day will mean your laundry/hoovering won’t get done and YOU care that the house is messy
because the fury expressed that you left the country for four days without telling her was frankly weird
because insisting that your child isn’t putting on enough weight despite her following the 25 th percentile and threatening she is going to have to “insist on formula” until the GP told her to leave us alone doesn’t inspire confidence.
because her visits were unnecessary unhelpful and unpleasant.

I should add I have MANY relationships with Drs/Nurses/community based support that are mutually respectful, helpful and life enhancing. I also know people who have had fabulous HV who have bridged gaps and helped. I wouldn’t engage with one unless I saw real benefit to my family.

What would be the objective? Has anybody suggested this? Why not just start by making home school illegal? Will that happen? Is it even close? You’ve taken a fantasy scenario and linked it to this one which is completely unrelated.

OK, I don't think it's unrelated. I think the OP's point that voluntary services and provisions (which are also used to catch safeguarding concerns) should be actually voluntary is valid imo.

Some of them are 'trained professionals who have a wealth of knowledge and experience', some of them are muppets.

Compulsory nursery?!? Like this place.
www.echo-news.co.uk/news/20080100.little-legs-nursery-southend-rated-inadequate-ofsted/

I EHE one of my 4 DC because of the appalling local school, it flits between inadequate and RI. As an EHE parent I would not be given 10+ years of being pretty shit before I was ordered to send them into a school. Yet the school allocated would have such a record!

'I'm not one to be overly dramatic' I think you might be!

Is it voluntary though? OP is welcome to decline healthcare or check ups for herself, but should somebody be able to do this for their child? Give kids are most likely to be harmed by family, I say no.

Well, you'd have completely missed the abuse that we suffered, then.

You'd have missed the Autistic three year old shut in a cupboard for hours on end - who never did get a diagnosis because she didn't want him talking to anybody in case he said something.

You'd have missed the small, underweight and bruised little boy where the older ones were threatened with beatings if they told anybody how he got his injuries.

You'd have missed the two year old with her second dislocated shoulder (had four by the age of five/purely coincidentally the point at which it wasn't possible to keep off the radar any more - these days, she'd probably say she was home educating) or the ten year old who got punched in the head and shoved down the stairs for making the baby cry.

You'd have missed the woman being off her tits on medication prescribed after a subsequent pregnancy and the five year old who cared for three younger siblings including a newborn because the mother was in bed.

You'd have missed the dirt and hoarding and dogshit and fleas that came about because they had moved out of the grandparents' large, comfortable and clean home into one where there wasn't anybody around to notice the state of it or hear the screams.

You'd have missed the injuries that needed stitches but were dealt with by a plaster and a slap for being so stupid as to get cut on broken glass left lying around.

You'd have missed the child who turned out to have celiac disease and CPMA + lactose intolerance being given bread and milk because 'it's just faddy eating'. You'd have missed the other one with life threatening asthma caused by an allergy to dust mite shit and dogs living in a house that didn't have a vacuum cleaner but did have a large dog from a notorious shedding breed.

You'd have missed the fact that she actively despised all but one of the children from the moment they started having thoughts of their own - and wished them dead. That the only physical contact any of them experienced after the age of three was a punch, slap or shove.

You, with your 'I work in Safeguarding' expertise appear to be entirely ignorant of what actually goes on behind closed doors. It doesn't always start with the first child. It doesn't always happen to every child or might be in different forms within the family. But it could still be happening, even if nobody noticed anything happening to the first kid or nothing actually happened to them at that time.

Far too many are still swayed by whether the abuser can code as middle class/respectable. A fancy accent and some longer words, combined with the 'assurance' that this isn't their first child and they're perfectly fine as they are, thank you very much, now go away before I make a report regarding this intrusion and demand that you explain yourself to your superiors, doesn't mean that the children are safe. It means somebody who looks or sounds like you is potentially enabled to continue abuse undetected and unchallenged.

Is it voluntary though? OP is welcome to decline healthcare or check ups for herself, but should somebody be able to do this for their child?

IME if you have issues with HV - including crazy bad advice - many other professionals will just tell you to opt out of the service as it's voluntary.

It's then very frustrating when you try to do so and HV insists you can't or SS referals with follow. In end I went for smile nodd ignore and show I had plenty of support around me - which TBH wasted both mine and their time.

When I actually needed advice I went to straight to GP or accessed speach therapy screening services via children services or sourced bf on-line myself. It could have been a useful service and I know some mothers find it so but my experience was very poor and I know others who just found it delayed them accessing appropriate help and treatments for their children.

What were you smiling nodding and ignoring can I ask?