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Ukraine Invasion: Part 21

1003 replies

MagicFox · 16/04/2022 21:01

Another thread, thank you to all

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
BreadInCaptivity · 22/04/2022 22:57

I hope this is Ukraine's lucky break

Luck might not have anything to do with it, on the basis that the Ukrainians understood (or were informed) just how critical this plant was to Russias war effort.

Upshot is if you're outmanned and outgunned then you've got to find ways to level the playing field....

Just how critical this plant is to the Russian war effort remains to be seen though.

TiddyTidTwo · 22/04/2022 23:11

These fires. Russia must get their health and safety in order. These multiple coincidences must be one in a million chance.

😉😉

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 22/04/2022 23:22

@ScrollingLeaves very true. I have read a few of the more well known dystopian books with fascination...1984, Handmaid's Tale, The Bees (amazing)... Saw them as a means of dark escapism whilst ticking the 'classics' box 🙄 but always felt I was safe in my time and my place. But here we are trying to navigate war with a dystopian Russia and suddenly my personal welfare hinges on the world not offending He Who Must Not Be Named (or if you're Harry or Hermione you can call him Pootin)

And an entirely different newspeak is infiltrating our society but that's probably another conversation. All I will say is, imho, it is tying us up in knots, undermining democracy and weakens us and our ability to think critically. Are we in fact diminished and weakened by it? How does that fare for a future against Russia? Because no doubt, we will be at war with them for years to come.

Iwasfeelingepic · 22/04/2022 23:30

I also just want to say I appreciate everyone who posts in these threads I have been reading them since day one & only made a few comments as I'm not great at writing my thoughts etc, but I do check in a few times a day and find it really helpful.

DFOD · 22/04/2022 23:37

Ijsbear · 22/04/2022 11:07

There is? I missed that one. what when?

Looking again at that pic of Darth Putin, his hand still seems to be gripping the table with a tension that is unusual compared to the other photos. Could be just stress I suppose.

Are there any viable successors to him?

Parkinson’s has been suggested. Video footage or hands shaking, odd gait and feet tapping - main issue is it is a form of dementia with the mental deterioration as outlined below. The other person who had Parkinson’s was Hitler:

“Sir Richard Dearlove, a former head of MI6, speculated that the “best explanation” for his odd behaviour “is that he may have Parkinson’s”, something the Kremlin has previously denied.
“That certainly I’ve heard from several neurologists who say that loss of restraint, psychosis, are very common Parkinson’s symptoms,”

www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/956120/is-vladimir-putin-ill?amp

EmeraldShamrock1 · 23/04/2022 00:03

Looking again at that pic of Darth Putin, his hand still seems to be gripping the table with a tension that is unusual compared to the other photos.

It looked attached, fixed in a grip position.

In the past I thought his hands were heavy injected with muscle relaxers keeping them in position.

He probably decided on a new hand position to stop speculation.

His legs were spread weakly and his neck seemed stiff with his puffy face.

I am worried if he is dying he has nothing to lose.

Hoping and praying for those trapped tonight, not that it'll achieve anything.

baroqueandblue · 23/04/2022 00:11

Just had a chance to catch up on today's posts and want to express my gratitude and appreciation to those regular contributors who appear to be keeping many of us sane! Since quite a few regular readers have dropped in today to show their appreciation too, I feel I can say that with some evidence. The people whose research, analysis and opinion structures these threads from day to day are doing a great deal for my mental health and I can't thank you enough.

Also want to acknowledge those who replied directly to my posts of last night. I hope I didn't give the impression that I believe there has been a lot of 'desertion' from the threads as time has gone by. I was only saying it baffles me that so few people in my offline life seem interested or aware, and of course quite a few people today have explained and defended such behaviour very fairly. I agree, and actually my gripe was unrealistic. Life is demanding and busy enough for so many of my friends and family, plus yes, it can be difficult to talk about this stuff. But it was late and I was maudlin and being unreasonable. Anyway, thanks again and particularly for the suggestions regarding talking to the children, which really touched me.

DFOD · 23/04/2022 00:41

EmeraldShamrock1 · 23/04/2022 00:03

Looking again at that pic of Darth Putin, his hand still seems to be gripping the table with a tension that is unusual compared to the other photos.

It looked attached, fixed in a grip position.

In the past I thought his hands were heavy injected with muscle relaxers keeping them in position.

He probably decided on a new hand position to stop speculation.

His legs were spread weakly and his neck seemed stiff with his puffy face.

I am worried if he is dying he has nothing to lose.

Hoping and praying for those trapped tonight, not that it'll achieve anything.

Reuters reported the Parkinson’s suggestion back in 2020. Him dying and being ill are the least of our worries - if he has dementia / MH failure whilst carrying out these atrocities then it’s only going to get worse:

www.parkinsons.org.uk/information-and-support/parkinsons-and-mental-health

Mental health issues can range from depression and anxiety to hallucinations, memory problems and dementia.

DFOD · 23/04/2022 00:51

www.healthline.com/health/parkinsons/parkinsons-dementia#behavior

Behaviors seen in Parkinson’s disease dementia:

“As dementia progresses, managing disorientation, confusion, agitation, and impulsivity can be a key component of care.

Some patients experience hallucinations or delusions as a complication of Parkinson’s disease. These may be frightening and debilitating. Approximately 50 percenT
of those with the disease may experience them.

The best thing to do when giving care to someone experiencing hallucinations or delusions from Parkinson’s disease dementia is to keep them calm and reduce their stress.”

That last paragraph…..,would his inner circle let him continue if they knew he was mentally unwell?

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 05:39

Rumours from the Ukrainian side that they have taken out a Russian forward command and control post, with up to 50 senior and junior officers in near Kherson.

There was talk that they wanted the phoenix ghost drones to do this because they have 6 hours life and can operate in the dark with infrared.

If this rumour is true the Ukrainians will almost certainly need the intel on the ground about where such c&c posts are. Which they most likely do have from insurgent civilians within the area.

If they have indeed pulled off such a move, thats really going to hurt the Russians in that area and leave them with little leadership.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 05:43

Isw report

Also note the latest ISW report

Ukrainian Military Intelligence reported on April 22 that several Russian officers have been fired or imprisoned for failures in Ukraine.[3] The Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Russian authorities arrested the Commander of the Black Sea Fleet Admiral Osipov and are investigating Black Sea Fleet Chief of Staff Vice Admiral S. Pinchuk, likely for the loss of the Moskva. The GUR additionally reported the commander of the 6th CAA, the commander and deputy commander of the 1st Guards Tank Army, and the commander of the 22nd Army Corps have all been removed from their posts for unsatisfactory performance. Purges of Russian officers are unlikely to improve Russian capabilities, as replacement commanders will likely be less experienced and under intense pressure to achieve likely unreasonable objectives set by the Kremlin.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 07:05

Ministry of Defence AT DefenceHQ
(1 of 3)

Despite increased activity, Russian forces have made no major gains in the last 24 hours as Ukrainian counter-attacks continue to hinder their efforts.

(2 of 3)

Russian air and maritime forces have not established control in either domain owing to the effectiveness of Ukraine’s air and sea defence reducing their ability to make notable progress.

(3 of 3)

Despite their stated conquest of Mariupol, heavy fighting continues to take place frustrating Russian attempts to capture the city thus further slowing their desired progress in the Donbas.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 23/04/2022 07:36

mobile.twitter.com/Spoonamore/status/1517510440598843394

This thread claims that the fire at Russian chemical plant much worse (militarily) than initially thought. It suggest that the Russian army could grind to a halt in a matter of weeks

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 08:15

Phillips P OBrien AT PhillipsPObrien
As we await for the great Russian breakout in the Donbas and the encirclement of the Ukrainian forces, thought I would expand on this statement as some ground force people didn’t like it.

The picture of those who see the Russians doing well is that they will soon break through Ukrainian lines in the Donbas and encircle, kettle, fix etc, all Ukrainian forces to the east.

On the map this looks eminently possible, and I’m sure many analysts have war games with it happening. It harkens back to the large armored breakouts and encirclements of WW2. Head down from Izyum and trap the Ukrainians.

However what seems to be missing from all this talk is that the great armor break out, encirclements we’re based on air dominance as much as anything else, it was not just tanks. Starting with the German conquest of France, and really reaching its peak in the…

Soviet and US/U.K. breakthroughs in 1944, all these military events were based on having AirPower control over the battlefield, pinning defensive forces down while allowing your forces to advance while protected.

You want to see an attempt to advance without air superiority? I give you the Battle of the Bulge. German forces moved ahead only because the bad weather kept allied aircraft out of the skies for a few days in December 1944. Skies cleared, advance stopped.

So all those talking about some lighting Russian breakthrough and advance in the Donbas without air dominance being operated by the Russians over the battlefield are basically speaking of a kind of warfare that has never existed and probably never will.

Why? Because defensive firepower is now far more effective in range and destructiveness against armor columns than at any time in history. Don’t know if you saw this, but a Ukrainian Javelin unit took out a Russian tank at more than 4 km away.

Ukraine has been flooded with these hand held anti tank weapons, that will attrit Russian armored columns that are operating advancing along unsecured roads. It’s not going to be Guiderian, Patton or Zhukov.

Any Russian breakthrough without air dominance providing constant patrol protection will most likely result in halting, slow advances as the Ukrainians can still halt the vehicles at a distance.

So people discussing any Russian breakthrough and encirclement operation as occurring without Russian having active air control over the battlefield are making up a historical scenario that has never existed.

Perhaps this Russian army is so skilled, motivated and well equipped that it can make history without air supremacy. Or perhaps it’s not.

A slight note on this. The weather has been unfavourable to airstrikes. The US has also commented on how it has hampered satellite surveillance.

I've seen Ukrainian comments about how much they love the wet weather - it dampens their mood, but it also protects them from airstrikes and the mud hampers off road advances. This favours guerrilla tactics. They want this weather to continue as long as possible and by then the trees will have grown enough to give cover for more guerilla tactics.

So i dont think you can draw too many conclusions on this basis yet. However the longer the weather lasts the more Ukraine may be able to improve their air-defence too.

Borka · 23/04/2022 08:34

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 22/04/2022 19:14

There is a guy in Mykolaiv who uses his Airbnb to fund the army. I have booked him a couple of times now. Is anyone else sending money into Ukraine this way? I think a lot of people did go via Airbnb originally?

I've been donating to Come Back Alive who are the biggest organisation supporting the Ukrainian Army, I think. Lots of the Ukrainians I follow on Instagram suggest them as the best way to support the army.

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2022 08:42

Washington Post article on the MOD intelligence tweets. Its currently free access and not paywalled.

A couple of really interesting points relating to how its propaganda which is worth sharing here. I think someone already shared it but worth doing again since its free to read atm

How uk intelligence has been tweeting - Washington Post

On Ukraine, the intelligence tweets are frequent but still on the cautious side, and sanitized.
“When you read it closely, it’s often a hedge,” said Phillips P. O’Brien, a war studies expert at the University of St. Andrews. “So they will say, ‘Russians are having logistics problems.’ Well, okay, what does that mean? Sometimes it’s the mood music that’s more interesting than the evidence.”

What isn’t discussed is also notable: no adverse or revealing news about Ukraine’s performance on the battlefield.

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 23/04/2022 08:48

Thanks @Borka

ScrollingLeaves · 23/04/2022 09:06

Radio 4 Today had Fiona Hill (Russia Expert) speaking at about 1:10 mins in.
It is worth listening to on iPlayer.

MagicFox · 23/04/2022 09:08

Could I make a request (and feel free to disagree) that when links to Twitter are shared there might be some kind of summary/warning about what the content is. I've thought this a few times as the thread has progressed.

OP posts:
herecomesthsun · 23/04/2022 09:10

Mud season appears to be a recognised feature of Ukrainian life. www.theguardian.com/news/2022/apr/12/mud-season-in-ukraine-leaves-russian-tanks-stuck-in-mire

cloudberry · 23/04/2022 09:11

Sorry, it’s a video taken by some of the families in the Abozstal bunkers. I’ve watched about 4 minutes but have got to go out with dd so hope to god that there’s nothing hideous further on. Just found it heartbreaking and extraordinary watching the the children and the tone of the man filming as he interacts with them….. and the poignancy too. Unimaginable

cloudberry · 23/04/2022 09:13

@@MagicFox yes I realised that as soon as I pressed post and seriously apologise as there is plenty I have no desire to watch. Thank you for the reminder. Is there still no edit button for posts as I would rectify my post if possible

MagicFox · 23/04/2022 09:15

I didn't mean you specifically @cloudberry , I just meant generally. I remember clicking on a link with an ominous but unclear comment much earlier on and seeing something I wish I hadn't!

OP posts:
Igotjelly · 23/04/2022 09:16

Whilst I agree that a trigger warning or something might be helpful it needs to be remembered that this is a thread about war, in particular a war that’s now notorious for its crimes against humanity. There is no sanitising that and it does a disservice to the brave Ukrainian people trying to get their message out there if we attempt to.

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