Page 20 | Boris has been fined - Part 2

cakeorwine · 2022-04-13T20:00:49+00:00

Because this is going to go on and on..... With more fines Part 1 here [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4528104-boris-has-been-fined-tory-voters-should-he-go]]

Blossomtoes · 18/04/2022 09:42

@Notonthestairs

It does all rather depend on what version of the report we are able to see. Did they commit to publishing the full version?

I have every expectation that the report will be robust and every expectation it will be redacted to the point where it’s meaningless.

Notonthestairs · 18/04/2022 10:09

Comes to something when I have to hope it's leaked in full. Heaven knows we can't rely on Conservative MPs to insist.

DuncinToffee · 18/04/2022 10:23

Johnson this week will tell us that he will "accept mistakes were made" but'll also tell MPs there's "always an exemption for work.."

Notonthestairs · 18/04/2022 10:25

@DuncinToffee

Johnson this week will tell us that he will "accept mistakes were made" but'll also tell MPs there's "always an exemption for work.."

Shame they didn't tell the rest of us then 🙄

Cornettoninja · 18/04/2022 10:41

@DuncinToffee

Johnson this week will tell us that he will "accept mistakes were made" but'll also tell MPs there's "always an exemption for work.."

This fool is a gas-lighters idol.

The world is in a state of unrest and chaos and we’re stuck on this island with a government that don’t care that they are the constant diversion away from the adult conversations that need to be happening because they can’t help themselves behaving like they’re in house wars at boarding school.

There is no integrity. A man who has caused prolonged irritation and anger through his incompetency and lying still thinks he is best placed to lead us. The utter arrogance is astounding.

This cabinet will never shake off the perception they have built. The concern is that they don’t seem to think that’s a problem and a sizeable, vocal, proportion of the electorate seem to agree. When did standards sink so very low?

Original poster

cakeorwine · 18/04/2022 11:03

@DuncinToffee

Johnson this week will tell us that he will "accept mistakes were made" but'll also tell MPs there's "always an exemption for work.."

Interesting article on the law at the time theconversation.com/downing-street-party-what-the-law-actually-said-about-work-gatherings-in-may-2020-174857

And even if, somehow, this gathering was not strictly against the laws, it is difficult to see how it was in line with government guidelines at the time. Only necessary participants should have attended meetings and, even then, they should have maintained a 2 metre distance throughout. Guidance also advised that workplaces should reduce the number of contacts a person has by using “fixed teams” or “partnering” up with people.

As I have said before on this - what was the Covid guidance they were following in Downing Street - do you think if Johnson was asked, he would know the guidance?

From PMQs on Dec 1st

The Prime Minister

What I can tell the right hon. and learned Gentleman is that all guidance was followed completely in No. 10. May I recommend that he does the same with his own Christmas party, which is advertised for 15 December and to which, unaccountably, he has failed to invite the deputy Leader of the Opposition?

I bet he doesn't even know what the guidance was...

OP posts:

Piggywaspushed · 18/04/2022 16:42

Somehow, I feel we are about to be inundated with 'but Sturgeon's....

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 17:31

@Piggywaspushed

Somehow, I feel we are about to be inundated with 'but Sturgeon's....

Oh no I wouldn't say that at all. The rule break was a mistake (why are they still forcing folk to wear face covers in Scotland anyway?), she has apologised. I'm no fan but she does have a few so meh, let it go.

Unless the police issue a fpn as they seem keen on at moment rather than investigating actual crimes..

Piggywaspushed · 18/04/2022 18:16

Face covering no longer mandated after today janiie.

Original poster

cakeorwine · 18/04/2022 18:26

It's going to be an interesting week.

I wonder when the next fines will come out.
Will we learn the true facts of wine Friday?

OP posts:

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 18:27

@Piggywaspushed

Face covering no longer mandated after today janiie.

Yes but it was mandated when she broke the law.

I don't know really, we either look at context and agree minor breaches are just that or decide the law is the law and FPNs must be issued regardless of any context.

I'm obviously the formed however many on here are sticklers for the latter. Who you'd vote for seems a deciding factor.

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 18:28

Former*

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 18:30

'I wonder when the next fines will come out.Will we learn the true facts of wine Friday?'

Maybe but it's all dragged on too long I really do fear they've missed maximum impact and folk will just say oh who cares.

They should've done the 'big' ones (if there are any) first.

Original poster

cakeorwine · 18/04/2022 18:32

@JaniieJones

'I wonder when the next fines will come out.Will we learn the true facts of wine Friday?'

Maybe but it's all dragged on too long I really do fear they've missed maximum impact and folk will just say oh who cares.

They should've done the 'big' ones (if there are any) first.

I don't know.

Just waiting for his apology on Tuesday and his excuse

Then the next one and that excuse.....

OP posts:

Blossomtoes · 18/04/2022 18:38

I really do fear they've missed maximum impact and folk will just say oh who cares

You don’t fear at all, you hope. There are a lot of people very, very angry about this and it will only increase as more fines are issued. They were hoping the war in Ukraine would stop people caring. It hasn’t. They’re hoping their ridiculous Rwanda scheme would stop people caring. It doesn’t seem to. What dead cat are they going to drop next week?

Original poster

cakeorwine · 18/04/2022 18:41

What dead cat are they going to drop next week

A big smelly one and Boris saying "Look at that, look at that"?

OP posts:

Roussette · 18/04/2022 19:11

There are a lot of people very, very angry about this and it will only increase as more fines are issued

I agree.

If there can be this amount of furore about this minor but illegal infraction with cakegate, just imagine what it's going to be like when it's established he's hosting the parties, or there's one in his flat. Which Carrie has flatly denied, but looks like it happened. There will be even more outrage than at the moment.

jgw1 · 18/04/2022 19:13

Unless the police issue a fpn as they seem keen on at moment rather than investigating actual crimes..

@JaniieJones Why do you think breaking the law that imposed the most draconian of restrictions on the freedoms of people in this country when you brought in the law is not an actual crime?

jgw1 · 18/04/2022 19:18

@JaniieJones

'I wonder when the next fines will come out.Will we learn the true facts of wine Friday?'

Maybe but it's all dragged on too long I really do fear they've missed maximum impact and folk will just say oh who cares.

They should've done the 'big' ones (if there are any) first.

@JaniieJones are you advocating that the police when considering what crimes to investigate aim for the maximum possible political consequences for the government?

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 19:20

'Why do you think breaking the law that imposed the most draconian of restrictions on the freedoms of people in this country when you brought in the law is not an actual crime?'

Tbf Sturgeon was caught off guard and put her face cover on asap. It wasn't premeditated so while yes she did break her own draconian restrictions the police were happy no crime was committed. That's the thing with rules and laws, an element of common sense should prevail.

jgw1 · 18/04/2022 19:27

@JaniieJones Are you able to provide us with a handy list of actual crimes?

I'd be much obliged as it would be helpful to distinguish those from the ones that just break the law, but aren't actual crimes.

And if you have the time do you have a list of how long one has to commit each crime for before it counts as a crime.
We know that parties in lockdown and burglary have to last more than 10 minutes to count, is that true of all crimes?

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 19:37

'I'd be much obliged as it would be helpful to distinguish those from the ones that just break the law, but aren't actual crimes.'

I'm not the best person to ask really, the police seem to decide on an unspecified basis. So, for example beer and nibbles in Durham with work colleagues (when indoor beers and nibbles weren't allowed) all ok, breaking rules in barbers in Scotland by the FM, all ok. Yet cake and birthday wishes in Downing Street illegal and the crims given fpns. Not much rhyme or reason to it, it seems.

jgw1 · 18/04/2022 19:41

@JaniieJones

'I'd be much obliged as it would be helpful to distinguish those from the ones that just break the law, but aren't actual crimes.'

I'm not the best person to ask really, the police seem to decide on an unspecified basis. So, for example beer and nibbles in Durham with work colleagues (when indoor beers and nibbles weren't allowed) all ok, breaking rules in barbers in Scotland by the FM, all ok. Yet cake and birthday wishes in Downing Street illegal and the crims given fpns. Not much rhyme or reason to it, it seems.

@JaniieJones

A poster sometime earlier today said "Unless the police issue a fpn as they seem keen on at moment rather than investigating actual crimes.."

I just wondered if you had a view on what they might have meant by an "actual crime". I value your opinion highly as you always seem to have such a clear and well thought out view of everything.

itsgettingweird · 18/04/2022 19:44

@JaniieJones

'Why do you think breaking the law that imposed the most draconian of restrictions on the freedoms of people in this country when you brought in the law is not an actual crime?'

Tbf Sturgeon was caught off guard and put her face cover on asap. It wasn't premeditated so while yes she did break her own draconian restrictions the police were happy no crime was committed. That's the thing with rules and laws, an element of common sense should prevail.

I agree with that.

The same as where the police sit right at the point in my town where an A road goes from 40-30 and fine people. I don't think when slowing down to 30 and being fined for being still at 34 is really something that should be fined.

I agree when there's cameras mid a 30 zone that fines should be issued (except those cameras haven't worked for years )

The point is that Boris set out to break the rules and is now trying to use any defence possible to get out of it.

I don't think Rishi should have been fined for walking into a meeting room where there's a party he wasn't invited to - if he walked straight back out rather than stay for a piece of cake and wine.

For me it's the equivalent of the differing sentences for the same crime in terms of how long you remain in prison and your release dates.

Sadly though I do think Boris will use NS as his defence now.

SueSaid · 18/04/2022 19:45

'I just wondered if you had a view on what they might have meant by an "actual crime".

Oh I don't know, stuff like assaults, sexual abuse, stabbings, gang crime. Taking face covers off or wishing people happy birthday just aren't up there imo. I should apply to be Commissioner really.