Amber Heard - new accusations

[ThistlesAndUnicorns]

Amber Heard has now alleged Johnny Depp sexually assaulted her at the start of the defamation trial. Thoughts?

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-court-updates-b2056201.html

@monkeysmum21

As a mother of a boy, I found it very worrying how easy is for a woman to claim abuse without any proof (not a single [professional has backup AH claims). AH has all the privilege cards in her hand, that is why people side with her without any knowledge of the case. I don't believe her and I absolutely hate women who use VD to get what they want, damaging in the process real DV victims and innocent men.

are you kidding? you know he lost the case that he brought against the Sun. The judge considered 14 incidents and judged that he believed JD to be a wife beater.

@Jinglebin1

She is by NO means innocent, but he gets the worse words and press because she's a woman and people deep down don't like to believe women can abuse.

My thoughts exactly!

Those supporting her as just as bad as those supporting him

Exactly.

I don't fancy supporting a woman who thinks it's okay to spit in the face of her assistant. That's abusive.

@monkeysmum21

As a mother of a boy, I found it very worrying how easy is for a woman to claim abuse without any proof (not a single [professional has backup AH claims). AH has all the privilege cards in her hand, that is why people side with her without any knowledge of the case. I don't believe her and I absolutely hate women who use VD to get what they want, damaging in the process real DV victims and innocent men.

As a mother of a boy, hopefully you would be realistic and accept he had abusive tendencies if he sent messages to friends about setting on fire a girlfriend and having sex with her dead body to make sure she was dead.

Because that's in black and white what he said.

Men who aren't abusive don't say shit like that. It's psychotic.

No amount of 'well she did xyz too' changes the fact that in black and white he is the kind of man who fantasised about killing and sexually assaulting a woman. It's not fucking acceptable in any way, shape or form.

As with previous threads on the Depp v Heard battle, I will not take sides. None of us knows for sure what happened in this marriage. I am, however, interested to see how this turns out.

On the face of it, you would expect Heard to win as Depp lost his case against the Sun and libel cases are much harder to win in the USA. Depp has to overcome the constitutional protection for press freedom, which means he has to show she acted out of malice. He may also face a challenge on anti-SLAPP grounds, these being laws to stop people launching prosecutions to prevent discussion of matters of public interest.

On the other hand, the main reason this trial will be much longer than the UK trial is that there will be a lot of expert evidence, whereas the judge in the UK refused to hear any expert evidence and then refused to make a finding on a photo that Depp claimed supports his position due to the lack of expert evidence. Also, in the UK trial Heard was a third party and the judge refused to order her to disclose material (documents and recordings) which Depp believed would help his case. In the current trial she will have had to disclose this material. Finally, we know that one of the factors that swayed the judge in the UK trial was Heard's claim that she had donated the $7M divorce settlement to charity. It appears Depp can show this was not true.

Of course, the other big difference is that this case will be decided by a jury, whereas the UK case was decided by a single judge. Will this affect the outcome? Who knows.

@prh47bridge

Am I correct in thinking that the case against the sun wasn't to prove that he was a "wife beater" but to prove that the sun posted what they did in good faith with the information that they had at the time?

@FrippEnos - No, that is not correct. Reporting something in good faith is not a defence in a libel case. The closest defence is that you are expressing an honest opinion, but that only applies where the statement is on a matter of opinion, e.g. a review of an actor's performance. The Sun argued that their statement describing Depp as a wife beater was substantially true. The judge agreed with them and found that Depp is a wife beater. Note, however, that a libel case is decided on the civil standard - the Sun only had to prove their case on the balance of probabilities. They did not have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Depp is a wife beater. However, it was for them to prove their case to this standard. Depp did not have to prove that he is not a wife beater.

By the way, there is another factor I missed from my last post that may help Depp. The UK judgement, in part, shows that the judge did not understand the Los Angeles Police Department's processes and regarded the lack of contemporaneous notes as weakening the evidence of two police officers. A US court may have a better understanding of the LAPD's processes and appreciate that the lack of notes actually strengthens their evidence.

thank you

All the Sun had to prove was that what they'd printed was substantially true. Amber Heard's behaviour wasn't in question and this wasn't what the court was being asked to decide. As soon as he admitted in court that he beat her, the result of that case was a foregone conclusion.

Looking at his claim and her counter claim I strongly suspect both are telling the truth. He's now on record as a wife beater, having publicly admitted the fact; she's admitted on a recording to having got physical with him. It's going to be difficult for either to prove they are the innocent party given that ugly box of tricks he keeps persisting in opening in court.

Her counterclaim, that he's smeared her reputation, stalked her online and harassed her using the legal system for years, seems pretty much unassailable to me. There's a demonstrable track-record of it.

As to the abuse, having seen that repulsive exchange of texts from Depp, addiction issues aside those are not the words of a nice, kind, benign sort of bloke. As for the constant protestations from his deluded fans that 'he was just letting off steam'; 'we've all said that about people we're angry with' - er, no. I've never entertained such hideous fantasies and ill-will toward any person. They are disturbing, disgusting, misogynistic, and only add plausibility to her claim about the sexual assault.

Sounds as though both had awful backgrounds which seriously messed them up. It was their misfortune to have found each other, but the one clinging on like a dog with a bone and who won't let go, is Depp. His career's tanked so he has nothing to lose except, apparently, taking her down with him.

But Women's Aid and other charities, and mumsnet for that matter, recommend that women record the abuse as evidence. Amber did this with screenshots, videos, and photos.

And she was treated like some scheming whore who planned and trapped poor johnny...

Indeed. And there was a precedent: Oksana Grigorieva. She had unassailable evidence of the abuse against her: recordings of it were plastered all over the internet. And STILL people didn't believe her. She was a 'gold digger'. She was a 'whore'. She'd 'trapped' him. She was manipulative, and had 'driven him to it' (translation: it was really her fault). In fact, the excuses being made for the fans of the big-shot, handsome, charismatic Hollywood male on that occasion are the same ones being made for the big-shot Hollywood male this time around. They go pretty much like this:

“That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.”

As for the post upthread, that AH holds 'all the cards of privilege' in this particular situation, I actually laughed like a drain. In whose (fantasy) universe?

'She is by NO means innocent, but he gets the worse words and press because she's a woman and people deep down don't like to believe women can abuse'

Looking at the comments on the bbc article today it seems nearly everyone is desperate to believe she hasn't been abused.

As soon as he admitted in court that he beat her

I cannot recall him making any such admission. The nearest he came was admitting an accidental clash of heads when trying to stop her hitting him.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

But Women's Aid and other charities, and mumsnet for that matter, recommend that women record the abuse as evidence. Amber did this with screenshots, videos, and photos.

And she was treated like some scheming whore who planned and trapped poor johnny...

Indeed. And there was a precedent: Oksana Grigorieva. She had unassailable evidence of the abuse against her: recordings of it were plastered all over the internet. And STILL people didn't believe her. She was a 'gold digger'. She was a 'whore'. She'd 'trapped' him. She was manipulative, and had 'driven him to it' (translation: it was really her fault). In fact, the excuses being made for the fans of the big-shot, handsome, charismatic Hollywood male on that occasion are the same ones being made for the big-shot Hollywood male this time around. They go pretty much like this:

“That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.”

As for the post upthread, that AH holds 'all the cards of privilege' in this particular situation, I actually laughed like a drain. In whose (fantasy) universe?

Perfect post

@KitBumbleB

I'll stop hogging the thread (!!)

But Women's Aid and other charities, and mumsnet for that matter, recommend that women record the abuse as evidence. Amber did this with screenshots, videos, and photos.

And she was treated like some scheming whore who planned and trapped poor johnny...

The mental gymnastics some people will go to in order to excuse the behaviour of this bloated, self important, man chil, old pirate is beyond my comprehension really ....and why? Because he was good in a film? Because he used to be handsome? Because you fancied him at one point?

Remember when he used to go around pretending he was Native American? Even making a vanity project film about it (The Brave) which was panned by critics so he withdrew it from sale in America....he can't handle criticism or rejection.

I would urge anyone to read the Rolling Stone article on Johnny and his finances .....eye opening....

This! While Amber is not an angel, the video and text evidence is compelling. Depp has serious addiction issues and seems to be surrounded by people who facilitate his bad behaviour. Very disappointed in Bettany too, those texts were vile. I find it really disturbing how many women are defending Depp

She is definitely not innocent. Both together were very toxic and in depps own words a crime scene waiting to happen. Both were very violentle and pushed each others buttons and at the end of the day two wrongs do not make it right. I'm not sure what the experience of previous partners were though.

So she drove Depp to be abusive

People are only abusive if they choose to be. No one made him do anything.

And now he won’t let go because he is desperate to hold onto the cool nice guy image they was a facade anyway he has long had a violent temper. It’s not normal behaviour to smash up hotel rooms

At the end of the day, they're both actors. Who are getting much publicity.

I wonder what the real motivation is behind it?

@prh47bridge

I always appreciate your views on such things, thank you
Do you think the truth was Able to fully come out in the UK trial? How is it fair the judge didn't allow certain thing's?

[quote PaperTyger]@prh47bridge

I always appreciate your views on such things, thank you
Do you think the truth was Able to fully come out in the UK trial? How is it fair the judge didn't allow certain thing's?[/quote]
Did the truth come out? No-one knows and I am certainly not going to offer an opinion. The judge clearly decided that Heard's testimony was to be believed and rejected evidence from police officers, medical professionals and others that disagreed with hers, accepting evidence from her sister and her friends that supported Heard's evidence. He also decided that contemporaneous documentary evidence must be wrong where it disagreed with Heard's evidence and right where it agreed with Heard. Many of Depp's fans appear to have read all the documentation in the case and believe it proves him innocent. They also point to the fact that, unlike other cases where accusations from one woman have been supported by similar accusations from others, no-one has come forward to allege that Depp also abused them. Having said that, domestic violence is difficult to prove as there is often very little evidence other than the alleged victim's testimony. The judge was in court and saw how Heard came across. I wasn't so I have no idea whether I would have found her a credible witness. The judge was entitled to believe her and found that 12 of her 14 allegations were proven. My own view is that it is clear that Heard beat Depp. Whether Depp beat Heard is less clear but, on the evidence, the judge was entitled to decide that he did.

I can't immediately find the judgement, but my recollection is that the expert evidence was refused on the basis that, had it been allowed, NGN (publishers of the Sun) would have wanted to deploy their own expert evidence which would have made the trial too long with all the other evidence Depp wanted to submit. I don't know exactly what Depp's expert would have said so no idea whether it had any bearing on the outcome. The judgement suggests that, at most, it would have disproved one of Heard's allegations that was accepted by the judge, leaving the others intact.

Re disclosure, Depp's problem is that Heard was a third party - he was taking action against NGN, not Heard. The courts will only order third party disclosure when the judge is persuaded that it is necessary for a fair hearing or to save time. Depp's lawyers failed to convince the judge that either of these applied, so Heard was not ordered to disclose.

this case only shows one thing - johny depp is abusive, as shown in the UK courts, so the Sun was truthful in claiming he was a wife beater.

AH hasn't sued anyone saying they are lying about her being abusive so that side hasn't been looked into. it doesn't matter if she was also abusive back (legally) as it was only defending the Sun calling him a wife beater.

Not sure he will win his case against her in the US, if her claims are substantially true (and it doesn't matter if she did the same back as such, he is claiming he did not hit her, not that he did hit her but in self defence or similar)

(i have exams on defamation soon so we're studying this case)

I did think in Depp’s first case and now, that maybe he genuinely can’t accept that he might be horrible, violent, frightening or deeply unpleasant when under the influence of vast quantities of drugs or alcohol.
This I think has a lot to do with him being surrounded by 10s of people reliant solely on his cash and employment. Post the worst of his excesses others clear them up as if they never occurred and it is never spoken about.

If you destroyed a house, urinating around it, smashing things, painting in acrylic and your own blood - not only would you have to sober up and actually face your actions but you’d then have to spend days cleaning and sorting them out and maybe years paying for it all.
For Depp - a team swoops in and he never gets to sit in realisation or take his portion of responsibility for his actions.

So he lives in a fantasy realm ( generally - he largely dresses and speaks like a pirate ) where for years his version is that Heard pre-manufactured evidence of his abuse, including messages from those who worked with him, corroborating his abuse of her.
It is easier than admitting there was/is a problem and it is you.

When people say but Heard also hit Depp. My mum also sometimes hit my dad. Sometimes prior to whatever beating she knew was coming, sometimes during.
He always made that an equivalence - truly it never, ever was.
Sometimes she mocked him
She was always made to apologise to him for hitting him and for what she said. He had her tied in knots and believing she was to blame - sadly my mum adored my dad, no matter what he did.
This didn’t make them the same or her an abuser but it silenced her and shamed her.

Finally, I feel sad Depp is being held up as a poster for male victims of domestic violence. So many men really are abused. I have seen no evidence so far to suggest that Depp has been one of those men, abused in adulthood.

Interesting, thanks ph4.

Is there anywhere to watch this trial ? Or get updates like we did at the one in London?

Good post Ronald.

I think we will get a more balanced view at this trial if the judge allows evidence from Depp.