Money saving expert thinks civil unrest is coming

[ivykaty44]

There was a thread on mumsnet recently about civil unrest, views seemed to be it wouldn’t happen, the British don’t protest

Martin Lewis thinks hungry cold people will protest

I think he could be correct, what have people unable to afford heat and food got to lose?

giggly Yes forced, I do not want to be ruled by Westminster thanks. I’m happy with the way Scotland is run, some things I’m a bit ? about but very much as @ssd has said.

Let’s keep the thread in track, but I’ll assume that most English MN will have much of an idea about the PollTax marches as let’s face it, it didn’t effect themwink

Maybe you should do some more research then and widen your understanding of current issues. The Scottish devolution settlement is an absolute abomination in democratic terms and the country is going downhill even faster than England. Which is saying something. Nicola has fair changed her tune on oil as well, since she realised that covering the country in unwanted wind farms gives jobs and money to her cronies.

far too many folk smugly saying it was fine to live with ice on the windows -

Absolutely. I hate people who go on about it. I lived it as a child. It was horrible.

So did I. Grew up in a freezing, damp house in the 60s. My memory of childhood is being constantly ill and perishingly cold.
I vowed when I grew up I’d never feel that cold again. I managed to do that until a few months ago. My HA flat was 9 degrees this morning and I could only put the heating on for an hour. It’s like reliving that feature of my childhood and it feels shit. There is nothing else I can cut back on now. I’m ready to protest.

It will be in a spell of good weather and it will most likely be in the same places as usual. With the disenfranchised looting stuff making headlines and detracting from the actual issues whilst messing up their neighbourhoods.

This is rioting I’m referring to not protests.

@MrsSkylerWhite don’t you remember the riots in 1981 in places like Toxteth and Brixton?

@Squiff70

For anyone who hasn't yet worked out how the internet works.

So he goes on twitter to clarify that what he actually said was... Pretty much exactly what the headline quoted. We're not far off the point of civil unrest.

If I can afford the travel costs, I will join in. Sedately, at the back, with a flask and snacks rather than looting.

@Codswallop20

I find food banks an ethical issue for me.

They shouldn't exist because we shouldn't need them. If I donate to them then I exacerbate the issue because the government have less reason to act and help those in need.

If I don't donate then more people go without which is horrendous in this day and age. I'm fortunate enough to have enough these days but I was desperately poor only a few years ago and I know what it's like to go hungry.

So while I applaud the work these charities do and the donations do, I actually think it makes the situation worse. Because no one in power has to act if someone is picking up the pieces.

Does anyone else feel like this? I am really torn about this issue because I see people really struggling and I've been there.

I agree. I feel so much for the people using them but I don't think it is the way the issue should be solved. Perhaps that was what Cameron meant by "the big society". 😒

I was also very poor previously - no heating at all, no oven, often no food or electricity - for many years. I know how awful it is to be cold and hungry. I received food parcels in 2003/4 when in this situation (so Blair was just as bad, I got no help whatsoever) and it was humiliating and also an unstable supply of food that means you can't meal plan. It isn't the answer. But I also don't want people to experience that hunger and cold. I remember it viscerally.

Next winter is going to be awful for so many people.

I think first we will see an increase in crime, burglary, mugging, and shoplifting. people will try to find ways to make ends meet. I grew up in a deprived area. everyone fiddled their meters, not as easy to do now they are external and encased. Everyone had a black box and there was always a local bloke who would turn your gas meter for a few quid.
Working cash in hand was common.
There was always someone with a bin bag full of stolen clothes, razors, tinned salmon, toiletries, etc.
I do think we will see protests, whether that will escalate to rioting I don't know. once the better weather comes and heating isn't such a worry it might stave it off for a while but come October there's going to be a lot of angry, frightened people who have run out of options to provide for their families

@MrsPsmalls

Protest all you like, but those of you hoping for civil unrest just get out and do it yourselves or shut up about wanting it. Police and courts will come down very hard on this, and as ever it will be the young and the poorest who will be arrested and imprisoned while the rest of us sit comfortably at home, having incited it.

Our Court and Prison Services are already stretched to breaking. The police (who no one has any faith in anymore) say they're spread too thin too.

As I said before, the UK is in a state, our institutions are fucked due to Austerity, Brexit, Covid etc. We are not prepared for next winter.

@VelvetChairGirl that article says:

"Had progress been maintained at pre-2013 rates, around 131,000 lives could have been saved, the IPPR concludes"

So it's purely hypothetical.

And even if that figure is right - from what I can see it is dubious - it is still lower than Coronavirus UK deaths which stand at 169,000.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Prices went up 10 days ago. No-one on a capped SV tariff will get higher bills until the end of October if Ofgem raise the cap on the 30th September, as predicted.
No-one (who is currently on a fixed tariff) will see a change in pricing until their tariff comes to an end. Then they will have to choose the cheapest they can get.
For example, if your tariff ends on 10th July, then your price per kWh and standing charge per day won't change between now and 1Oth July. Then you'll have to find the best fixed price you can, before the second rise in October.
People on vouchers or prepayment meters and standard tariffs will feel the change immediately.

Tbh it's about time. This Government has been absolutely shameless in decimating public services, letting people die, and awarding massive contracts to their mates.
Covid has partly stopped people marching because people who believe in collective responsibility and have a social conscience (ie care about the NHS; heating bills; food bills; rising poverty, etc) don't want to increase the burden on the NHS and endanger the vulnerable by marching during a pandemic.
But since the current Government's tone deaf approach to rising Covid figures is putting everyone and the NHS at risk anyway, there's nothing to be lost by marching, protesting and rioting any more.
The last few years have felt like an experiment in how corrupt a Government can be without the population finally saying 'enough'. If this is the tipping point. It's about bloody time.

As was pointed out upthread though, the economy has taken a larger and more permanent hit from Brexit than from Covid. Yes current geopolitical events and appalling planning from our Government are exacerbating that but many of the people who voted for Brexit and voted for this Government and put them in power with a huge majority are the same people now complaining about high prices. We were told repeatedly "we don't care if we are poorer" and "don't patronise us! We know what we are voting for!" etc.

It's those who had no hand in this I feel sorry for. Clearly geopolitical events were not predictable but electing these idiots and supporting their policies was pretty much guaranteed to make 99% of the population poorer. It's very difficult to feel sympathy for those who have made this situation much worse than it had to be, not just for themselves but also everyone else.

@IamTheEvilPea

As was pointed out upthread though, the economy has taken a larger and more permanent hit from Brexit than from Covid. Yes current geopolitical events and appalling planning from our Government are exacerbating that but many of the people who voted for Brexit and voted for this Government and put them in power with a huge majority are the same people now complaining about high prices. We were told repeatedly "we don't care if we are poorer" and "don't patronise us! We know what we are voting for!" etc.

It's those who had no hand in this I feel sorry for. Clearly geopolitical events were not predictable but electing these idiots and supporting their policies was pretty much guaranteed to make 99% of the population poorer. It's very difficult to feel sympathy for those who have made this situation much worse than it had to be, not just for themselves but also everyone else.

Although saying that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been an obvious risk since 2014. And arguably since 1986.

@IamTheEvilPea

As was pointed out upthread though, the economy has taken a larger and more permanent hit from Brexit than from Covid. Yes current geopolitical events and appalling planning from our Government are exacerbating that but many of the people who voted for Brexit and voted for this Government and put them in power with a huge majority are the same people now complaining about high prices. We were told repeatedly "we don't care if we are poorer" and "don't patronise us! We know what we are voting for!" etc.

It's those who had no hand in this I feel sorry for. Clearly geopolitical events were not predictable but electing these idiots and supporting their policies was pretty much guaranteed to make 99% of the population poorer. It's very difficult to feel sympathy for those who have made this situation much worse than it had to be, not just for themselves but also everyone else.

If you have difficulty feeling sympathy then you are part of the problem. You're one of the people who put others into 'teams' and then reserve your compassion for those you think are 'right'. That's not how compassion works. It's not how public services work. It's not what democracy is about ... or the NHS. And it plays right into the Tories' hands.

People are struggling to feed their families and heat their homes; struggling with a health care system that has been deliberately overwhelmed and under-funded (since long before Brexit) and the people trying to turn this into a devolution or Brexit argument aren't the political pundits they think they are. All you're showing is your ignorance and your lack of compassion.

I will cheerfully join in any protests and I've not been to a protest since the Iraq war!

@ivykaty44

Labour don't seem to be speaking about their policies though

they aren't the government and an election hasn't been called, presently the tory party are in power

Well, it would be a bloody start if they at least started speaking up! The Labour Party should be shouting from the rooftops right now - doesn’t matter if a GE isn’t round the corner. They should be front and centre, saying what they would put in place. They need to build momentum well in advance of an election.

Don’t forget, they wanted stricter lockdowns - how would they have played out for the economy?

I think a huge swathe of the population feel politically homeless right now. Labour are doing nothing to correct this feeling, they’re just as shite as the current government.

Thing is how did we get here? In 2022? In a wealthy country?

I feel like the encouragement to spend and loosen all control over budgeting and modest living has become so powerful in the last twenty years.

I avoid so many things because I just can’t keep up (with friends, too). My life has become so small and I saw this to a degree with my parents when they retired and became frightened of the increasing costs and what it meant to them.

Heating and food are basics and we have cheap supermarkets here so to still struggle indicates something much more significant. We seem to have been awash with money that always felt outside of my reach and artificial somehow in the last twenty years yet I haven’t had a feeling of value or substance with anything. How did this society get everything so wrong?

If you have difficulty feeling sympathy then you are part of the problem. You're one of the people who put others into 'teams' and then reserve your compassion for those you think are 'right'. That's not how compassion works. It's not how public services work. It's not what democracy is about ... or the NHS. And it plays right into the Tories' hands.

People are struggling to feed their families and heat their homes; struggling with a health care system that has been deliberately overwhelmed and under-funded (since long before Brexit) and the people trying to turn this into a devolution or Brexit argument aren't the political pundits they think they are. All you're showing is your ignorance and your lack of compassion

And where was the compassion from the people who repeatedly voted for Brexit and the worst Government in modern UK history, for the people who that would affect who didn't want that? Who said they were fiiiiinnnnne with us all being poorer if that's what it took to fulfil their xenophobic dreams of union jack coloured unicorns?

Now we reap the rewards of this on top of everything else, and I've seen very little contrition from those who made a huge contribution to placing us in this dire situation by supporting politicians who highjackee the political agenda for a huge act of national self-harm, to the detriment of fixing any socio-economic issues, energy security, food security, the health service, etc. With a decent Government focused on worthwhile and rational priorities we may have been in a very different place.

Geopolitical and inflationary pressures are hitting globally but the citizens of comparable countries in economic terms that have been vaguely focusing for the last decade on the right priorities are not suffering anywhere near as much, nor will they.

It isn't something that can just be brushed away.

@dubyalass

I've got the telly on, and flicking through the channels I found 'Britain's Most Expensive Houses'. I didn't watch it, but it did strike me as totally tone deaf and vulgar. I'm fucking sick of having wealth and privilege shoved in my face, and I'm in a relatively stable financial position (for now). People are on the bones of their arses and it's only going to get worse - I feel like the rich are laughing at the rest of us plebs. "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche."

I thought exactly this when I seen an advert^^ earlier for the Kardashians.

The Jubilee will be interesting.

And those people who chose to support and vote for these muppets and intellectual dwarfs are the ones who need to now explain to the rest of us why we should feel sad for them when they have got - as they wished - exactly what they voted for: to be much, much poorer. That was the only likely outcome all along as every credible economist made patently clear.

As I said, I've far more sympathy for people in this situation through no fault of their own, who had no hand in making it so bad.

I do think government needs to do more but two things which will probably be controversial here;

1. our food bank was set up under the last Labour government. I agree we shouldn't need them. If they weren't there, there would be some other mechanism to do a similar job. If they are just taken away, what then?

2. our local authority has just been given over £4.5m (population under 600k). Not everyone needs help so I thought this was pretty generous. The money is a hardship fund. Local authorities know better than government who needs help with bills etc in their area. I don't know yet how people apply but that's better than is being represented on this thread.

People need better wages to keep up with inflation, but we also need to get inflation under control.

I agree. If you look back to the last riots they came amidst a long period of austerity. I get that this is different - we are paying for the money borrowed for furlough. But this is also a big crisis.

@Narcoanonymoose

Nah. Johnson's got his Falklands moment so all the flag shaggers won't mind even if they can't afford to eat or heat their homes. Middle class feminists are too caught up in trans self ID, can't vote labour, Johnson is their new saviour. Why rock the boat ? Everyone else - more interested in Love Island, etc , but Jeremy corbyn lefty unions blah blah...

Never a truer, more cynical word … 😔

I think a huge swathe of the population feel politically homeless right now. Labour are doing nothing to correct this feeling, they’re just as shite as the current government.

How can the Labour Party be as shite as the current government when they are not in power? They can’t correct what’s happening when they don’t have a majority vote.

If a party is not going to implement policies you believe in then look further, the party doesn’t change to suit voters, otherwise which voters would they change to suit?

@cuparfull

Pull yourselves together! Don't you think Putin is watching this and actively inciting unrest. Suits him down to the ground to have you lot wittering on about riots. Cut back on outgoings, give to food banks, support each other by building up local networks.We all have to get through this.

Historically the Brits are good at that so show some backbone and don't agitate!

It's never too late for a

The lack of critical thinking displayed on this thread is comical.

It must be like looking in a mirror. One of those hilarious distorting ones