Money saving expert thinks civil unrest is coming

[ivykaty44]

There was a thread on mumsnet recently about civil unrest, views seemed to be it wouldn’t happen, the British don’t protest

Martin Lewis thinks hungry cold people will protest

I think he could be correct, what have people unable to afford heat and food got to lose?

Erm, I'm not entirely sure you're correct about that 🙄 it's been done before you know!

I said it's not really the way, that doesn't mean it's never happened. 🙄 @Moodycow78

The problem with foodbanks and charity is that I can no longer afford to donate, which I used to do generously. I am far from the only one in this situation.

[quote IamTheEvilPea]@VelvetChairGirl that article says:

"Had progress been maintained at pre-2013 rates, around 131,000 lives could have been saved, the IPPR concludes"

So it's purely hypothetical.

And even if that figure is right - from what I can see it is dubious - it is still lower than Coronavirus UK deaths which stand at 169,000.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/quote]
its 2 years old and austerity has only gotten worse.

The problem with foodbanks and charity is that I can no longer afford to donate, which I used to do generously. I am far from the only one in this situation.

Perhaps some of those non-doms who comfortably stump up £30,000 so that they can avoid a few million in UK taxes, could donate those £30K's direct to food bank organisations, and then pay their dues anyway. We might then just find that there is enough for everyone's need, when they sacrifice their greed.

@Squiff70

For anyone who hasn't yet worked out how the internet works.

This quote is in the article so seems about the same.

Maybe he regrets mentioning civil unrest at all.

@Peregrina

The problem with foodbanks and charity is that I can no longer afford to donate, which I used to do generously. I am far from the only one in this situation.

Perhaps some of those non-doms who comfortably stump up £30,000 so that they can avoid a few million in UK taxes, could donate those £30K's direct to food bank organisations, and then pay their dues anyway. We might then just find that there is enough for everyone's need, when they sacrifice their greed.

they wont, they are like hoarders. there will never be enough zeros at the end of their bank statements to calm their anxiety about becoming poor.

we should get rid of the royals for a start, thats long overdue

Thing is how did we get here? In 2022? In a wealthy country?

Twelve years of Tory rule?
Is Brexit the most economically damaging policy ever introduced by any government? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about history can answer.

We might then just find that there is enough for everyone's need, when they sacrifice their greed.

wishful thinking

Dumb question time.

Why do people.refer to the UK as a wealthy country?

We owe, in national debt, more than GDP?

"UK general government gross debt was £2,223.0 billion at the end of March 2021, equivalent to 103.7% of gross domestic product (GDP)."

If I owed more out than my wages each months, I'd poor as fuck. But maybe that's a too simplistic view?

@MaryAndHerNet

Dumb question time.

Why do people.refer to the UK as a wealthy country?

We owe, in national debt, more than GDP?

"UK general government gross debt was £2,223.0 billion at the end of March 2021, equivalent to 103.7% of gross domestic product (GDP)."

If I owed more out than my wages each months, I'd poor as fuck. But maybe that's a too simplistic view?

because as a country it is, but its concentrated in few places.

national debt doesnt work the same way as your wages, debt is good for a country really, where do you think money comes from its an i.o.u from the government part of what gives it value is promises to increase infrastructure and thus work and jobs and buying materials, then theres the assets the biggest we have is the NHS, every time something is privatised our wealth decreases as a country.

@MaryAndHerNet I too feel it's a misrepresentation when we say that UK is a rich country. We have the sixth largest GDP in the world but that ignores population size and regional inequality, gdp per person/capita would be a more accurate measure..the gdp per capita in inner london is on par with monaco but the gdp per capita in parts of the north is lower than Bulgaria. Even if you look at London as a whole (our richest region, responsible for maybe 25% of tax revenue which is a feat for 9 million out of 67 million people so London is subsidizing the rest of the country), we are sandwiched between Singapore and Switzerland in terms of ranking of GDP per capita even though London is the world's biggest financial centre so we are below cities like Zurich and Geneva. Our wages on average are very low below countries like USA, Germany and Ireland. The gdp per capita of Manchester is the same of Beijing the last time I checked so in the next 10 years, Manchester would be less rich than a lot of the thriving cities in China and India. And Manchester is the capital of the north. There is only so much London can subsidize.

One can't look at debt without looking at assets i.e. I have a mortgage of 300k but I wouldn't say I am poor because of that as I have an asset i.e. a flat in London. Singapore has a lot of government debt on paper (mostly in pensions to its own people as all pension monies are invested with the government) but its assets (owning 90% of government land and also lots of buildings etc) far exceed the debts...I doubt UK government assets exceed the debt but the UK is generally triple a rated in terms of risk..so I wouldn't say it's poor but the country as a whole is underperforming with the exception of regions like London and the Se which might be expensive but produce on par with other first world countries and based on stats have more disposable income after rent and bills than people in the north.

Our GDP is high - which puts us in the G7 with that.
However - when you look at other factors - such as GDP per capita and how expensive a country is to live in for the people who live there and who earn money in that country, it's not so good.

I am not sure we could be described as a wealthy country when people who earn median wages in that country struggle to afford to buy a decent house, to put food on the table, to heat their house and to maintain a decent standard of living.

That's a median income. People who are on the lower percentiles of income really struggle in this rich country.

Our wages here are much more than in other countries. But we have expensive houses for that income and expensive other costs for those incomes.

It's hard to find out which countries have relatively affordable living costs for the typical income someone has.

We have the sixth largest GDP in the world but that ignores population size and regional inequality, gdp per person/capita would be a more accurate measure

Full fact says the below

"The more relevant measure is average GDP per person. This still has drawbacks which we’ve discussed before, but it gives a clearer indication of how wealthy people are. On this measure, the UK is the 20th-or 27th-wealthiest country in the world."

@colosmbo

We have the sixth largest GDP in the world but that ignores population size and regional inequality, gdp per person/capita would be a more accurate measure

Full fact says the below

"The more relevant measure is average GDP per person. This still has drawbacks which we’ve discussed before, but it gives a clearer indication of how wealthy people are. On this measure, the UK is the 20th-or 27th-wealthiest country in the world."

I would also say that ignores what things cost to buy.

I could be earning what seems like a lot of money to people in another country - say twice as much in US$

However, if houses cost 10 times as much compared to people in that country, food is 5 times as much etc - then who is better off?

@cakeorwine China's houses are far more expensive in terms of income multiples than even London, but the home ownership rate is still 90%..this is because home ownership is generally a communal activity, the parents and kids club together to buy a property. In Singapore, expats always tell me how expensive their rent is but for locals, home ownership rate is 89% cos of government subsidized housing which is sold mainly to family units (couples, siblings, parent-child) or singles above 35. The UK has a nuclear approach to our lifestyles much like the rest of Europe but we lack the incomes! Nuclear living is traditionally associated with richer countries as it's more expensive to run smaller households but I think we seem stuck with the illusion that we deserve it despite not having the incomes to support it.

I just looked at a graph/table and it looks like the 08 crisis, QE & austerity has really slowed our trajectory.

We obviously have the ageing population issue (which the gov hasn't planned for) so I can only see things getting worse.

It's all really interesting and I find it really hard to see the UK as 'Wealthy' tbh.
TBF I love in the north, Yorkshire. People round me are poor, very very poor.
I can imagine my estate is typical of housing estates in every town and city. That's a lot of poverty when totted up.
But I'm aware my experience colours my view somewhat.

Re middle class trans self ID, if Labour and other left/ centre left parties are shilly shallying about women being able to say they are women rather than womb carriers etc, how on earth are they going to be able to make complex important decisions?

@cakeorwine most first world countries have expensive cost of living relative to income. However they are also more likely to be able to get mortgages or high quality rentals a la Switzerland/Germany.also access to single payer healthcare or affordable health insurance. Good quality free healthcare.

So I would rather live in an expensive country with all these things than a third world country where banks would not give me a mortgage and I have to buy a house in cash (or rent bad quality housing), have to pay private for everything including cancer treatment, no good schools. Any additional cost in terms of services or groceries is worth it if I have these basics covered
Unfortunately for the UK, a lot of these elements of a rich country are breaking down i.e. I needed a big deposit to buy a flat and renting is not great in the UK, I have private healthcare to ensure I can see a GP.

*good quality free schools

@MaryAndHerNet I have a friend in Yorkshire. She earns half of what DH and I earn, less than half now cos DH is getting a better job and she is on maternity leave, but her expenses are the same as mine (in London and I have a big mortgage) as she needs to run a car and she was unemployed for a while and racked up some debt... At least in London, there are more jobs and you can get free transport for kids and over 60s and a bus ticket is £1.65.

I read somewhere that the salaries in London only account for about 1% extra once you factor in living costs. I've had a few friends with jobs like teachers, police, tech, doctors who have moved to other parts of the country & they have a much higher standard of living now.

@colosmbo most people my age in London I know had considerable help in terms of their finances i.e. buying a house which accounts for a large percentage of their outgoings including myself. That's another thing about the UK, what your salary is often is not the full picture. Someone on 35k with a gift of 200k from parents is far better off than someone on 70k in terms of outgoings. Not taxed and the asset bought would probably keep pace with inflation. I have never seen so many 'ordinary' people with so much help from parents as I have in the UK. Distorts the picture!

you can get free transport for kids and over 60s and a bus ticket is £1.65.

I expect free travel for over 60s to be pushed to a higher age like free prescriptions.