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Ukraine Invasion: Part 19

999 replies

MagicFox · 06/04/2022 20:38

Welcome friends, still going

OP posts:
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39
RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 12:36

@Igotjelly

I’m sorry but why does Boris get the cockerels?
I tried to explain this upthread.

The cockerels are part of a popular Ukraine meme for the war.

In Borodianka the apartment blocks are completely destroyed. But there was a photo of one building where although the entire rest of the building and the floor had gone, the shelves were still attached to the wall. On top of the shelves was one of these cockerels.

The idea behind the meme is 'you can bomb us to fuck but like the shelves we are still standing' and to 'be strong' as a symbol of Ukrainian resilience.

The cockerel Johnson was given was similar to the one in the photograph and is by a traditional Ukrainian pottery artist.

So the cockerel REALLY means something and is really heartfelt and considered as a gift. Its reflective of Ukrainian culture and current Ukrainian spirit and feeling right now.

Gifts like this are typically given for any diplomatic trip by a foreign leader as part of diplomatic etiquette as symbols of friendship. But I do think thats a particularly nice one.

I hope the cockerel is either given pride of place by Johnson or finds a nice home on display rather than being filed away in a government store gathering dust.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 19
cloudberry · 10/04/2022 12:40

@FatCatThinCat @ScrollingLeaves I saw this on Twitter a couple of days ago and then again yesterday. I’ve only started using Twitter since this thread and following particular people suggested here and found I was terrified of scrolling down in case I inadvertently came across any photos or god forbid the video itself. One poster gave the name of the abomination responsible and then there were all sorts of comments about how naming him will sort him out. I was so (naively I know) appalled to realise how easy it is to stumble across seriously horrifying content there. I can’t even articulate or get my head round what motivates someone to do such a thing and video it too. And yes I know that is naive but still …. There is so much that is so so utterly broken in the human condition and it’s not a new phenomenon and as so many posters have said, war brings out the very very worst of the darkness in humans ….. My dad was an older dad and fought in WWII; he had his stock stories but there was so much that was never spoken about. He was 21 when he joined up … turned away in 1939 for being too young.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 12:45

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@FatCatThinCat

Woke up this morning to warnings on my social media from various European media outlets that viewing or sharing the video footage of the Russian soldier raping then shooting a 1 year old girl is a criminal offence. The bastard has been arrested but it doesn't say by whom. I should have stayed in bed.

That is depraved and evil beyond words. It doesn’t even fit with some sort of theory of the ‘selfish’ gene trying to populate the world with more of itself ( devil’s spawn).

Has this been on the ordinary news? I don’t think people realise the scale of horror what is happening.[/quote]
I saw it being talked about two days ago and refrained from posting.

The video has been shared on Telegram apparently. And its been pointed out that anyone sharing it is also committing a criminal offence. I've seen a number of people stressing that if you come across anything this appalling there is a responsibility to report and you certainly don't share.

All the social media companies are supposed to have zero tolerance on this, but it has still be shared - both out of disgust and out of less pleasant reasons.

As the comment I saw about this was, if the Russians are doing this ON camera what are they doing OFF camera.

Even with 'Z campaign', my suspicion is that this will go too far even for Russian authorities tbh. They don't care about it happening but they do care about plausible deniability.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 12:51

As I said a few days back my suspicion was it was not just the Germans who had intel on what the Russians were saying...

edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/08/audio-intercepts-russian-soldiers-chance-vpx.cnn
'Kill them all, for f**k sake': Shocking intercepted audio reveals conversation between Russian soldiers
Ukrainian officials say there is new audio from intercepted radio traffic revealing Russian soldiers killing and raping civilians. CNN's Matthew Chance reports.

Lesia Vasylenko@lesiavasylenko
Russia master strategy: First they dig trenches in the contaminated woods of Chernobyl. Then they hit a 4 ton nitric acid storage in Rubizhne and the smoke blows over their military units. At this rate there won’t be many russians for Ukraine to fight

Igotjelly · 10/04/2022 12:55

Ahhh @RedToothBrush I had read it as he got those actual cockerels not ones the same. Hence couldn’t understand how he had wangled that one!

ScrollingLeaves · 10/04/2022 12:56

@FatCatThinCat
I see that that rape and killing of a baby has been reported in a number of

papers. I saw one where the soldier’s name, address, and passport number have been included. If those details are correct perhaps that means other soldiers have spread that information.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 12:57

@Igotjelly

Ahhh *@RedToothBrush* I had read it as he got those actual cockerels not ones the same. Hence couldn’t understand how he had wangled that one!
No. There is a woman in the photo between Johnson and Zelensky. She is a Ukrainian artist who made them.
Natsku · 10/04/2022 13:07

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@FatCatThinCat
I see that that rape and killing of a baby has been reported in a number of

papers. I saw one where the soldier’s name, address, and passport number have been included. If those details are correct perhaps that means other soldiers have spread that information.[/quote]
Hopefully his fellow soldiers were properly horrified by what he did and so spread his info and maybe some vigilante justice of their own to him

ScrollingLeaves · 10/04/2022 13:16

@Natsku

Have to hope most Russian soldiers are horrified too but it doesn’t bode well that he videoed his various rapes and sent them on mates presumably boasting.

It does not seem to be reported in good newspapers.

Natsku · 10/04/2022 13:26

He must have felt confident that some at least wouldn't be horrified :(

Alexandra2001 · 10/04/2022 13:45

@TheABC

Johnson only cared about Brexit as a vehicle to power. If it were in his interests to do so, he would rejoin tomorrow. As it stands, we are going to have a painful couple of years before some kind of reapprochment with our nearest neighbours. The NI question still has not been answered; it's mostly been ignored and wished away.
This absolutely! as much as i'm very pleased BJ is supplying Ukraine with more advanced weapons, esp anti-ship, he isn't doing so out of some inherent belief in democracy, its support or even to help the Ukrainians..... he is doing this because he thinks it will make him popular and it helps with his belief he is some latter day Churchill.

If backing remain and hence Cameron had been a vehicle to power, thats exactly what he would have done, he is no Brexitier, say like Steve Baker.

Saltedeggplant · 10/04/2022 13:46

She is a Ukrainian artist who made them.
She isn't the artist, she bought them for a friend.
Her friends have posted on Instagram about and the explanation made me laugh, lovely bit of Lightheartedness amongst the gloom

Ukraine Invasion: Part 19
Igotjelly · 10/04/2022 13:51

@Natsku

He must have felt confident that some at least wouldn't be horrified :(
Plenty of child molesters feel this way and is often those they think will ‘enjoy’ the content that are in fact repulsed by it and act upon it.
DuncinToffee · 10/04/2022 13:53

Kyiv Independent
Kyiv is reopening after siege: 900 grocery stores, 460 cafes working, 535 car repair shops, 35 food markets, 55 bakeries, 75 clothes and shoes stores open, according to the city administration.

Igotjelly · 10/04/2022 13:56

@DuncinToffee

Kyiv Independent Kyiv is reopening after siege: 900 grocery stores, 460 cafes working, 535 car repair shops, 35 food markets, 55 bakeries, 75 clothes and shoes stores open, according to the city administration.
I love this ❤️
DuncinToffee · 10/04/2022 13:56

AFP News Agency
The airport in the central Ukrainian city of Dnipro has been completely destroyed in fresh Russian shelling, a local official said Sunday

Saltedeggplant · 10/04/2022 13:58

@DuncinToffee

Kyiv Independent Kyiv is reopening after siege: 900 grocery stores, 460 cafes working, 535 car repair shops, 35 food markets, 55 bakeries, 75 clothes and shoes stores open, according to the city administration.
Wow and lovely. I saw the pictures a couple of days ago of a gardener in kyiv planting the beds in the city with flowers, again just a tiny bit of joy amongst the shitness, planting for a better future.
RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 14:12

Expat in Kyiv @expatua
Woman tells how Russians were shocked how Ukrainians lived - "They have all houses made of bricks, laptops and Nutella in every house - it can't be,"

There is a video of this.

This is a reoccurring theme.

This is one of the lasting thoughts that Russian soldiers will return home with.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 14:16

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@Natsku

Have to hope most Russian soldiers are horrified too but it doesn’t bode well that he videoed his various rapes and sent them on mates presumably boasting.

It does not seem to be reported in good newspapers.[/quote]
I'm finding the newspapers 3 to 4 days behind twitter on a lot of things. (both war and none war)

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 14:17

Alex Luck @alexluck9
Military head of Lithuanian armed forces announces plan to train Ukrainian instructors on western military equipment "in the near future". Training to take place in Lithuania.

notimagain · 10/04/2022 14:23

@RedToothBrush

Alex Luck *@alexluck9* Military head of Lithuanian armed forces announces plan to train Ukrainian instructors on western military equipment "in the near future". Training to take place in Lithuania.
There's a surprise Wink......One of the very few advantages to this possibly becoming an extended conflict is that it might allow Ukranian personnel to be rotated out of the front line for such purposes.
Ijsbear · 10/04/2022 14:28

About the baby - don't tar every Russian soldier the same. There are Brits who do just as bad - in one situation I had to deal with some of the fallout of one such. It's a very, very small minority who do this kind of thing, though sadly those who do it tend to have many victims.

I think there's a danger of making all Russian soldiers into The Enemy and there's considerable evidence many don't want to be there and hate what they are commanded to do.

WeAreTheHeroes · 10/04/2022 14:29

The newspapers and other sources are bound to be behind Twitter due to verifying and fact checking work before they publish it/mention it themselves.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2022 14:29

Dr Mike Martin @threshedthought
Much has been made of this Russian redeployment to the east of Ukraine.

A thread.

First a few thoughts.

The Ukrainians won the first major battle in this war. That was the Battle of Kyiv (2022).

This battle will be studied. Is being studied.

Supposedly the Russians were going to pull their forces out of Kyiv and redeploy them to the East.

I’m not so sure about this. Pulling units out of a battle where they have taken a lot of damage and casualties and then trying to form new units out of the debris (reconstitution in military parlance) is super hard. See here:
www.army.mil/article/219390/the_fallacy_and_myth_of_reconstitution

This is even more so when you consider the low state of training of Russian forces and their terrible morale.

Even if they could rebuild a semblance of a force out of what managed to get out of the Battle of Kyiv, the idea that they can easily move it 1500km across Belarus and inside Russia to the East of Ukraine … I just don’t buy it.

There won’t be many Ru forces coming from Kyiv.

The Russians have also supposedly solidified their command structures. Finally.

A major weakness of their initial plan was that the different prongs were commanded separately meaning they could coordinate, sequence activity or prioritise top level assets like planes

Interestingly the war in the east is being commanded by the commander in the south.

This means it will take him a while to understand in detail what is going on.

There also news that Russia is calling up reserves and conscripting a new batch of soldiers.

Irrelevant in the timeframes we are taking about. It will take months for them to come online.

And finally, on the Russian side we have rumours that the commander has been given the date of the 9th May to achieve results.

This is the Russian May Day Parade celebrating the end of World War Two.

So that’s a month away. A tall order indeed. They’ve gone backwards over the last month.

Facing the Russians are maybe 75k Ukrainian forces in the East if you include Territorials.

The Russians maybe have 100k? Hard to say.

A good rule of thumb in warfare is that attackers need about 3 times as many forces as defenders in order to be successful (if all other things - like quality and morale of forces - are equal).

It’s much easier to defend.

So you can see from these numbers that the Russians aren’t in a position to do much attacking.

Neither are the Ukrainians, mind.

This leaves a couple of options.

The Russians could try and encircle all of the Ukrainians in a pocket, this defeating them (waiting until the starve/surrender etc).

This ain’t going to happen. The Russians couldn’t manoeuvre 120km along roads to Kyiv.

No way they can manage the 500km required to encircle the Ukrainians in the East.

So that leaves the Russians one option: try and grind the Ukrainians down.

This won’t work. They don’t have the numbers and their force morale and training isn’t high enough.

What about the Ukrainians?

Their strategic aims are fairly clear: push the Russians out of the sovereign territory of Ukraine.

Their strategic aims are fairly clear: push the Russians out of the sovereign territory of Ukraine.

So I think the Ukrainians should think about three things because what they need to do is cause the Russian forces to collapse.

1) I would start some sort of sabotage operations or insurgency behind the Russian positions. That shouldn’t be too hard as it is in Ukraine after all.

This is to scare the Russian forces.

2) I would conduct commando or special forces raids in places like Crimea, and in Russian territory.

This is to keep the Russian commander off balance and make them keep forces all over the place for defence.

3) I would launch short sharp attacks on Russian forces in Donbas. This is why the Ukrainians are asking for artillery and armoured vehicles from the West.

This will eventually force the rout of the Ru but the final push should only happen once 1) and 2) have had time to work

This is phase two of the war. It will take about a month to play out - so by ‘victory’ day parade in Moscow.

But it may not turn out how the Russians think.

The momentum is with the Ukrainians. I think they’ll kick the Russians out.

But they’ll lose 100k civilians doing it.

DuncinToffee · 10/04/2022 14:44

Ukranian resilience

Teaching despite the war. This is how a lecturer at Kharkiv University gives lectures to his students. As missiles attacks don't stop, it is safer to work from the basement

twitter.com/hannaliubakova/status/1513144336912900098?s=21