Ukraine Invasion Part 18

[Ijsbear]

Place for information, discussion, points of view, useful links and above all, a hope that this sovereign land can regain its freedom.

Key Takeaways

The withdrawal of Russian forces from around Kyiv is nearing completion.
Russia has not yet introduced forces withdrawn from western Ukraine into the fight in the east.
Ukrainian forces continued to put up organized resistance in parts of Mariupol.
Russian forces conducted limited offensive operations on the Izyum-Slovyansk axis.

The Battle of Mariupol continues, with Russian forces continuing to pound the city using artillery and airpower. The constrained information environment in Mariupol prevents us from assessing concrete changes in control of terrain, but Ukrainian forces appear to be sustaining organized resistance in parts of the city.

How the living fuck are those soldiers managing that?

I don't believe that yesterday's clip of surrendering soldiers is real. Those Mariupolitans will never give up.

Bread

he knew for the first time in decades he wouldn't have to explain or try to justify what he'd done to a person whom he fundamentally liked and whose opinion of him mattered (as much as Putin is capable of liking/respecting anybody).

Maybe - but shes not dead?

@MMBaranova

I've told family I am very busy with work for 48 hours and will not be in touch, but actually it has been getting to me so much. That's me living in comfort in the UK at the moment where there is a negligible chance of being blown up in those 48 hours.

Bucha. The main contact in Kherson oblast, behind Russian lines, knew all about Bucha. We discussed it. She's scared. They all are. She and her mother are not letting her father go out for supplies as he is the sort who will react in a way that rubs a soldier up the wrong way in an encounter. So she goes out, knowing what risks she faces.

Unlike Bucha and the horrors being discovered around Kyiv and in the North East there aren't bodies in the streets where they are south of the Dnieper. The situation is different. Bucha is in Kyiv oblast (as in the province around but not including the capital) where over 90% of the population speaks Ukrainian as their first language. The Russian soldiers are pumped up with de-Nazifying by carving swastikas into the bodies of the women they rape [yes, that was the most chilling image for me from recent days]. These women they see as semi-human, not quite right Slavs they have come to sort out. It's different down in parts of Kherson oblast which is supposedly much more Russian. It's the weakest link in the Novorossiya arc though as perhaps just 25% or so speak Russian there as their first language and maybe 30-40% in the district where my relatives live. So here the Russian troops can think of themselves more as liberators and my relative will smile and speak to them in Russian if she encounters any, though her accent will mark her out as being 'other'.

So no bodies in the streets at least where she is. Not a lot of Russian soldiers either as it is a small settlement they tend to just pass though. People she knows have been roughed up, one severely beaten and one has been taken away, not to be heard from again. She's deleting messages from her phone so that if checked again there won't be anything suggesting she is less than delighted by being liberated.

The elephant in the room when they had a visit that searched their home was her brother. He's not there. They said he was studying abroad. He's actually in the Ukrainian army.

I hope your family remain safe.

@BreadInCaptivity

Another good Trent Telenko thread:

twitter.com/trenttelenko/status/1511417219674161158?s=21&t=R4yWrmwdpygYPEI8WSrzMg

This gives hope, of which there is little in recent days. Thank you.

@MMBaranova

I've told family I am very busy with work for 48 hours and will not be in touch, but actually it has been getting to me so much. That's me living in comfort in the UK at the moment where there is a negligible chance of being blown up in those 48 hours.

Bucha. The main contact in Kherson oblast, behind Russian lines, knew all about Bucha. We discussed it. She's scared. They all are. She and her mother are not letting her father go out for supplies as he is the sort who will react in a way that rubs a soldier up the wrong way in an encounter. So she goes out, knowing what risks she faces.

Unlike Bucha and the horrors being discovered around Kyiv and in the North East there aren't bodies in the streets where they are south of the Dnieper. The situation is different. Bucha is in Kyiv oblast (as in the province around but not including the capital) where over 90% of the population speaks Ukrainian as their first language. The Russian soldiers are pumped up with de-Nazifying by carving swastikas into the bodies of the women they rape [yes, that was the most chilling image for me from recent days]. These women they see as semi-human, not quite right Slavs they have come to sort out. It's different down in parts of Kherson oblast which is supposedly much more Russian. It's the weakest link in the Novorossiya arc though as perhaps just 25% or so speak Russian there as their first language and maybe 30-40% in the district where my relatives live. So here the Russian troops can think of themselves more as liberators and my relative will smile and speak to them in Russian if she encounters any, though her accent will mark her out as being 'other'.

So no bodies in the streets at least where she is. Not a lot of Russian soldiers either as it is a small settlement they tend to just pass though. People she knows have been roughed up, one severely beaten and one has been taken away, not to be heard from again. She's deleting messages from her phone so that if checked again there won't be anything suggesting she is less than delighted by being liberated.

The elephant in the room when they had a visit that searched their home was her brother. He's not there. They said he was studying abroad. He's actually in the Ukrainian army.

It's heartbreaking watching what's happening without having family in Ukraine.

I can't imagine how difficult it is for you.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/stand-up-to-china-and-putin-foreign-policy-at-heart-of-germany-vote

Baerbock, a 40-year-old with a background in international law, has been one of the Greens’ most vocal advocates of tying German foreign policy more firmly to values rather than economic needs.

If she were to become chancellor, she has vowed to withdraw government support for the almost complete Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Germany and Russia, which critics say will boost Putin’s geopolitical influence.

Echoing rhetoric from within the White House, she recently said that Germany’s relationship with China should be marked by a “competition of systems: authoritarian powers versus liberal democracy”.

“The clarity with which the Greens now talk about sanctions against Russia – including a stop of Nord Stream 2 – and position themselves on China is remarkable,” said Ralf Fücks, a former Green politician who heads the Centre for Liberal Modernity thinktank.

@PaperTyger

Bread

he knew for the first time in decades he wouldn't have to explain or try to justify what he'd done to a person whom he fundamentally liked and whose opinion of him mattered (as much as Putin is capable of liking/respecting anybody).

Maybe - but shes not dead?

No - but she's no longer his equal as a head of state and fundamentally when he calls Germany he's not taking calls from her.

Fundamentally it's just my option - take it or leave it, but I do believe her leaving office is one of many factors that have lead Putin to believe "now" was the time.

@RedToothBrush

Waving a magic wand - what would you like to ideally happen.

Take away the nuke threat what do you think we should be doing or now or should have been doing in the past.

I can't imagine how difficult it is for you.

I feel guilty about being affected to be honest. Partly because I know I am safe and partly because, though I have Ukrainian heritage, I have a mixed bag of other ones. The stable anchor in my childhood was my London Irish grandmother for instance.

Posting occasionally here has I hope shone a slightly different light on things than generally hit the headlines. I am heavily invested in Ukraine as a vibrant if volatile multi-party democracy. Things haven't been perfect, and what could be given the back story of say the twentieth century there? Back in late 2013 when visiting I wandered down to the Euromaidan protest, before Christmas when you could and the crescendo had yet to be reached. It was a time of hope. How we got to here with Putin's terrible invasion I just do not know.

Yours is a valuable perspective MM. Please keep posting, when you want to.

@MMBaranova

>I can't imagine how difficult it is for you.

I feel guilty about being affected to be honest. Partly because I know I am safe and partly because, though I have Ukrainian heritage, I have a mixed bag of other ones. The stable anchor in my childhood was my London Irish grandmother for instance.

Posting occasionally here has I hope shone a slightly different light on things than generally hit the headlines. I am heavily invested in Ukraine as a vibrant if volatile multi-party democracy. Things haven't been perfect, and what could be given the back story of say the twentieth century there? Back in late 2013 when visiting I wandered down to the Euromaidan protest, before Christmas when you could and the crescendo had yet to be reached. It was a time of hope. How we got to here with Putin's terrible invasion I just do not know.

You shouldn't feel guilty. Not at all.

Its a collective trauma to everyone of Ukrainian heritage whether they live abroad or are still in Ukraine. Psychologically it will affect everyone who has that blood connection. How you are feeling is normal for the situation. You do have the worry of whats happening to your family in Ukraine.

Just because you are safe and you haven't directly experienced things doesn't mean you are ok. Its people you love, its your culture, its your memories...

Try and keep in your head if you are struggling with it, that war crimes also include the destruction of culture / heritage of a group or people. These acts by design are part of harming you and your family even if you are not where acts of violence are happening. Its supposed to psychologically hurt you.

Not knowing exactly what is happening to people you care about, especially given what has happened elsewhere in the country, is being done by design to terrorise people. It is a deliberate form of psychological warfare. You do not have to be present to be affected by it.

Your feelings are a normal response. Try not to beat yourself up over your guilt. I understand why you have it, but please don't forget some of the aims and purposes of what is happening is also being done to affect anyone with Ukrainian heritage no matter where they are.

Be kind to yourself. I hope your family stay safe and you can continue to keep in touch with them.

meduza.io/en/feature/2022/04/01/mom-please-make-it-stop
This is a long article date 1st April about Chernihiv.

It has the stories of various individuals in the city - lots of different ages both civilian and army.

@Wrongkindofovercoat

At the end of the day there is only one person who is responsible for Putin invading Ukraine and it rhymes badly with Poo bin.

Corbyn?

Well Corbyn has been mentioned so many times on these threads now and there can be no smoke without fire.

Thank you for your posts MMBaranova, I hope your family stay safe.

@TargusEasting

Well Corbyn has been mentioned so many times on these threads now and there can be no smoke without fire.

Poo tin

So well said @RedToothBrush - all the very best to you and your family @MMBaranova

well this is really depressing. ^www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/6/china-media-coverage-ukraine-war^

@HappyWinter

Putin didn't invade Ukraine because Germany (among others) bought Russian gas, along with a host of other goods too, also took part in western space programs....

But it did help him fund this war. Without Europe buying Russian gas, he wouldn't have the money. It's worth looking at anything that works in his favour. Have a think about it, from Putin's point of view (not a place I would like to visit), wouldn't you put everything in place to get the outcome you wanted?

ummmmm Where else would Europe get gas from? pipe it from Saudi? shipping the stuff from the ME would just make us reliant on a different dictator, one that has killed and murdered far more in the Yemen but doesn't stop us buying their oil... or is that the right grade of oil for our moral compass?

The West has always traded with Russia, we need what they have got i.e very rich in raw materials, which are essential for are tech industries, so we in effect, funded the Red Army too :(

The fact that UK, EU and USA are all looking at increasing sanctions shows that we have and still are careful what we sanction in order not to damage us too much.

as far as i can see, singling out Merkel is to try and divert from the UK Russian involvement and it also is a form of justifying Putins evil.

[quote Ijsbear]well this is really depressing. ^www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/6/china-media-coverage-ukraine-war^[/quote]
I am just going to put this map on this thread again because I think it is an important one. China has the same autocratic problem and designs on a world empire that Russia has. Their press will use anything it can to denigrate the US. I am not going to get surprised about it.

freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2022

[quote Ijsbear]well this is really depressing. ^www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/6/china-media-coverage-ukraine-war^[/quote]

They're playing the geopolitical long game at the expense of humanity and common feeling

@TargusEasting
Thank you for that map. Its graphic depiction of the free vs not free of the world is very effective.

How interesting to see Mongolia there as an patch freedom surrounded by unfree.

Goodness, that map is depressing.

Do you think, with the exponential growth of autocracies, we'd ever see the loss of the free world?