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Ukraine Invasion: Part 17

998 replies

MagicFox · 27/03/2022 07:23

A new place for us to convene, thread 17.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
Gingerwarthog · 01/04/2022 18:16

Ijsbear
That is incredibly moving.

PerkingFaintly · 01/04/2022 18:23

At least this dog, named Bavaria, may get reunited with her owners.

Dog saved by Ukrainian soldiers from abandoned home
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-60930068

jgw1 · 01/04/2022 18:23

@DuncinToffee

Sunak can now stop his hurt Will Smith act

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60952063
Infosys: Tech firm part-owned by Chancellor Rishi Sunak's wife closing Russia office

Some people are just jealous that he has such an incredibly successful wife.
DuncinToffee · 01/04/2022 18:23

I think his brother is even taller Grin

Former world heavyweight boxing champion (and brother to Kyiv's mayor) Wladimir Klitschko met Chancellor Scholz today

Ukraine Invasion: Part 17
Ijsbear · 01/04/2022 18:30

it breaks my heart that there are children who are as homeless now as their pets. There was a story about someone arriving in Hungary from Mariupol with her own child, her sister's child (sister had disappeared after going for water), her dead neighbours' child and a random child she'd scooped up where he was sitting by his dead parents.

Imagine having to sit by your dead parents not knowing what will become of you, having nowhere to go.

There are times a break from the news is good.

Gingerwarthog · 01/04/2022 18:35

Yes. I read that on this thread ( a few threads up). Absolutely heartbreaking.

Refugees being allowed to take their pets into Poland with no questions asked was a very humanitarian gesture.

EsmaCannonball · 01/04/2022 18:36

Not remotely interested in football, but could England, Wales and Scotland's World Cup draw be more geopolitically explosive?

England
USA
Iran
Scotland/Wales/Ukraine

Swayingpalmtrees · 01/04/2022 18:37

I don't think anyone cares one jot about Sunak's wife!! Confused

They do care about companies funding the Russia and by extension the war that is killing thousands of innocent people in Ukraine though.

DuncinToffee · 01/04/2022 18:37

Kyiv Indépendant
⚡️ Bucha liberated by Ukraine, says mayor.

“March 31 will go down in the history of our town,” said Mayor Anatolii Fedoruk.

He thanked Ukraine’s Armed Forces for liberating the city from Russian troops. The city was occupied by Russia since Feb. 27.

DuncinToffee · 01/04/2022 18:46

Horrifying

First videos emerge from Bucha after Russian forces retreated. Bodies left lying in the street; absolute destruction. This was a prosperous suburb just over a month ago.

Warning, video in link
twitter.com/charliekreuz/status/1509944227899260945?t=1PyJ6Pm4eTglNU2Cq7OEiA&s=19

DuncinToffee · 01/04/2022 18:58

Behind paywall

The EXCL: China staged a huge cyberattack on Ukraine’s military and nuclear facilities in the build-up to Russia’s invasion, according to intelligence memos obtained by The Times
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-cyberattack-ukraine-z9gfkbmgf

strawberriesarenot · 01/04/2022 19:00

I know it's not important
but I thought the deer antler baths was an April fools joke.
(Poor, poor deer, how bloody cruel, if true.)

Glad Germany are stepping up with the tanks and why do we have to tell Russia every bit of kit that is handed over to Ukraine?

MagicFox · 01/04/2022 19:13

[quote DuncinToffee]Behind paywall

The EXCL: China staged a huge cyberattack on Ukraine’s military and nuclear facilities in the build-up to Russia’s invasion, according to intelligence memos obtained by The Times
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-cyberattack-ukraine-z9gfkbmgf[/quote]
Can't get to it behind the paywall but wtf are china doing?! They have a real opportunity here to look good to the international community and to consolidate their position as a global power by doing so. And instead they're getting in the mud with Russia

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 01/04/2022 19:16

@EsmaCannonball

Not remotely interested in football, but could England, Wales and Scotland's World Cup draw be more geopolitically explosive?

England
USA
Iran
Scotland/Wales/Ukraine

The group of death ?
Saltedeggplant · 01/04/2022 19:18

They have a real opportunity here to look good to the international community and to consolidate their position as a global power by doing so.
China does not care about looking good tbf, they just wanted Russia to take Ukraine quickly, so everyone would move on equally quickly, but that didn't go to plan obviously.

HappyWinter · 01/04/2022 20:04

@Ijsbear

it breaks my heart that there are children who are as homeless now as their pets. There was a story about someone arriving in Hungary from Mariupol with her own child, her sister's child (sister had disappeared after going for water), her dead neighbours' child and a random child she'd scooped up where he was sitting by his dead parents.

Imagine having to sit by your dead parents not knowing what will become of you, having nowhere to go.

There are times a break from the news is good.

It's heartbreaking. I think about the children of Ukraine every night when I put my kids to bed and I look at them asleep and safe, and how lucky we are. I think about the fact that over 140 children have died, many others are trapped in cities like Mariupol and how they and their parents must feel. All that trauma, and for what? Just so Putin can get the gas deposits and control of Ukraine's other resources. He has reduced cities to ash for nothing.
Igotjelly · 01/04/2022 20:06

Red Cross have had to abandon today’s planned evacuation of Mariupol. I can’t begin to imagine the soul crushing disappointment at thinking you’re going to get out and be safe only to have that ripped away 😭

prettybird · 01/04/2022 20:09

My elite cats picture didn't post Hmm

Trying again.... Grin

Ukraine Invasion: Part 17
Igotjelly · 01/04/2022 20:13

@prettybird

My elite cats picture didn't post Hmm

Trying again.... Grin

Well that made my day, they’re gorgeous!
Ijsbear · 01/04/2022 20:14

Ok those are pretty elite!

blueshoes · 01/04/2022 20:14

@Saltedeggplant

They have a real opportunity here to look good to the international community and to consolidate their position as a global power by doing so. China does not care about looking good tbf, they just wanted Russia to take Ukraine quickly, so everyone would move on equally quickly, but that didn't go to plan obviously.
If China really did that, it is going to make them look really bad. Not only did they have advance notice about Russia's attack, but they also joined forces with the attacker.

I don't have the ability to get behind the paywall. What is the evidence and was the attack successful?

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2022 20:51

Gustav C. Gressel @GresselGustav
1/ So, again a tweet replaciong comment, trying to wrap up where we are in the war. Last week I did an @ecfr podcast on this.

It is April 1st, and this is an important draft date for the Russian army. Why does this matter for the war in Ukraine? New conscripts are not sent to battle,

2/ but as the term of service is 12 month, those who got called in spring 2021 have left/will leave the armed forces as ready trained soldier. Or could apply for a contract (24month) to serve as contract soldiers and be sent to Ukraine.

Last year's spring draft was 134000 men.

3/ Most conscripts serve in the land forces, this again is what is needed right now.

Russian forces have taken heavy casualties (roughly 2/3 of what Ukraine claims may be considered as real), so roughly 12000 dead, and 2-3 times the number in wounded.

4/ This means many of the forces committed in February 2022 are now so under-strength that they need to be taken out of the action and re-grouped or re-established. This is taking place right now and explains the operative pause of the Russian armed forces.

[RTB: so let me get this straight - the 'tactical withdrawal' has fallen at exactly the beaucratic moment the 12 month conscription was up... And thats the reason for them going back to Belarus and Russia. They won't be going to Donbass cos their contract is up!]

5/ It also means Russia is most vulnerable now, and Ukraine makes use of it as much as it can.

The routing of Russian forces around Kyiv was a good example. Russians have prepared defensive lines, and I don't think they wanted to give up all this terrain.

6/ Even if capturing Kyiv would not be possible anymore, this terrain could have been "sold" in ceasfire talks against other concessions. Ukraine would not want its capital close to the front, or a frozen "contact line". But it's gone now. A Ukraine victory.

7/ But the war is far from over. In the East, Russia took Izyum after heavy fighting. Further offensives to come, especially if further forces were created inside Russia.

Personnel is the key ressource short in supply. There is enough material in the Russian armed forces, ...

8/ ... and there is enough money to spend. Indeed pushing Russia out of the war by sanctions has failed.

I would argue for caution if Russia would be "satisfied" with Donbas alone. So far, statements on concentrating on Donbas come from the General Staff, not from Putin.

9/ Putin may still think there is more to be achieved. If Ukraine runs out of supplies faster than the Russia armed forces, the latter could still press for victory, despite their poor performance.

Russia missile campaign has shifted towards degrading Ukraine sustainability ...

[RTB which of course it would do, if your permenant army / airforce were filling in the gaps whilst you wanted for the next rotation of green conscripts on the ground at the 1st April changeover period - cos you can't possibly advance]

10/ ... striking oil depots, industy producing ATGW, ammunition, aircraft maintannence.

And better coordinated strikes to degrade Ukraine air-defences, especially Buk-M1 and S-300.

11/ Resupply from the West becomes the essential life-line for Ukraine, and every strike makes it more dependent on it.

The West is delivering, but on certain key items decisions to switch from used Soviet material to something we can deliver on a sustainable basis will have ...

[RTB: so thats when you might now get Belarus to go for Lviv - at the moment youve got your new conscripts up to the border. When the ground conditions are much better and the mud is gone]

12/ ... to be made soon.

Air defence is a case in point. Training and logistical preparations take time. If we want to deliver something once our own supplies of S-300 run dry, we have to make decisions now.

Ukrainians have requested NASAMS, which is a good choice.

13/ I hope a decision is made soon, and we will be able to use some of the pledged 🇪🇺 funds on it. But time is essential.

Otherwise, maintaining Ukraine mechanised reserves is key. A lot of attention is paid to infantry with light AT weapons. Infantry can hold terretory ...

14/ ... especially urban terrain. But in order to prevent cities from being encircled, Ukraine has used its armoured maneuvre formations to repell attacks in the open, or remove Russian forces from key positions.

Maintaing this capability is key to hold out against further attacks.

15/ So again, what does Ukraine need? Tanks, artillery, armoured personnnel carriers, and a lot of ammunition for it.

Then again, switching to platforms that can be delivered on a more sustainable basis would require decisions now.

16/ I guess Russian offensives will pick up steam in 1-2 weeks, depending on the availability of new contractees and materiel. UA may survive this into the next operative pause, but then?

There is no willingness to apply harsher sanctions and through Russia out of the war.

17/ So a war of attrition is unavoidable.

MUCH in this to unpick....

Saltedeggplant · 01/04/2022 20:57

I don't think it will change much perception tbh, the most we've done about the genocide their commiting against the Uyghur people, is say oh that's not very nice. How can you look any worse than that. They commit cyber attacks fairly regularly, I can't see perceptions, sanctions etc anything changing in regards to China. But I guess we will see.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2022 21:10

Aldin @tinso_ww
After watching videos and pictures from retaken territory around Kyiv by Ukraine Military, the ammount of Russian losses in equipment and manpower is unbelievable..

VDV was especially decimated..

Not a single clear mind can't comprehend the intended strategy behind this.
Poor in every imaginable way..

No wonder why Russian Ministry of Defense is not publishing losses, there is just no way to count them.

Ukrainians will be finding random bodies and destroyed vehicles in the woods around Kyiv for many more years.

There are some particularly horrible videos of dead Russian soliders who have clearly been there for sometime on twitter tonight.

Gingerwarthog · 01/04/2022 21:13

@prettybird

My elite cats picture didn't post Hmm

Trying again.... Grin

Absolutely gorgeous
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