Can't cope with DS being transgender

[YellowBrickWall]

This is so hard. I feel like I'm in a very weird place. I am absolutely gutted and just want it to not be happening. He is 23 and lives with us. I thought we had escaped this trend but he's got caught up in it. I don't know what to do.

It's hard to describe but I simply cannot go along with it. It's not true, he's not a woman, he never will be. I hate the gaslighting, it's so distressing. This is upsetting me so much but I don't know what to do.

He's an adult and can do what he wants but unfortunately this particular thing requires my involvement and I can't. I am totally against it. There seems to be no middle ground, I either go against everything I know and believe or I won't be involved in his life. It feels like blackmail. It feels shit. I hate it.

@YellowBrickWall your posts are brilliant. You come across as a really lovely person.

Why do woman who identify as women now need to be called cis?? I’m a woman - I don’t need a prefix.

Reminds me of how gay children were treated 30 years ago 'it's a phase' 'I don't agree' 'it's wrong'.Awful .

As opposed to now, when they are being called "sexual racists" and "genital fetishists" and told they could be attracted to the opposite sex if they can reason themselves out of their prejudice.

This. What progress.

@yellowbrickwall 👏 what a fantastic response your last post was, absolutely brilliant

I'm trying to imagine how I would cope if my DS did this - hope to God he doesn't as he's a big bearded 6 footer with very male features.
I think I would have to be honest with him as we've always been honest with each other and say look DS I don't understand what's happening and yes it's making me upset, I will always love you but I'm not professionally qualified to deal with this situation and finding it difficult to cope with it.
Then counselling all round I think. Hopefully he is seeing a counsellor to deal with this and not just getting carried away with the tide.

No if course I'm not, you're being obtuse. I'm pointing out that "love and support your child above all things" is a facile argument

Absolutely agree. Being trans is not comparable to being a rapist or kitten killer but IMHO can be seen as quite similar to joining a far right party. Most people who do join far right parties do not support genocide but they do disregard the rights of groups of people because they believe their rights are more important. This is exactly what a trans ideology is like. It is dismantling women's rights and serving the interests of already privileged men. Many people who join far right parties do not fully understand what they are supporting and that is also the same for gender ideologists. GI is a dangerous and oppressive regime and good parents would want to try and help their children break free from the brain washing which gets people trapped by it. So yes, just saying 'support your child' is facile and does not recognise that sometimes supporting your child means trying to get them out of abusive relationships, not just saying saying that you agree with everything they do.

The thing about safeguarding womens only spaces is flawed though because despite us having womens only spaces for years, attacks on women still happen. There are lots of transgender people, like my dds best friend, who would use the womens toilet without anyone even suspecting they ever used to be a man. Being transgender isn’t a new thing, however much Mumsnet seems to assume it to be. People have become more accepting of it and therefore people talk about it more and people who might have been afraid to live their life in that way before might feel more able to now - so perhaps it seems like there’s more of it, but it’s always been there. And genuinely trans people have always used their chosen toilet etc and most of them have never been called out for it - or attacked women. My dds friend is a lovely, kind and gentle person and is far more likely to be attacked themselves if they went into the mens toilet as so many of you seem to wish they did - is that what people really want to happen, to an 18 year old?

I really hate the anti trans stuff on Mumsnet. It’s totally out of touch. I’m sorry, but it is.

[quote PomRuns]@YellowBrickWall your posts are brilliant. You come across as a really lovely person.

Why do woman who identify as women now need to be called cis?? I’m a woman - I don’t need a prefix.[/quote]
Nobody needs a pre-fix imo it's just women, even if someone transitions completely it's still just women.
Cis is completely pointless.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Reminds me of how gay children were treated 30 years ago 'it's a phase' 'I don't agree' 'it's wrong'.Awful .

As opposed to now, when they are being called "sexual racists" and "genital fetishists" and told they could be attracted to the opposite sex if they can reason themselves out of their prejudice.

This. What progress.

The BBC now defines homosexuality as an attraction (by people of either sex) to others of their own gender. It has deliberately defined homosexuality away. See the BBC News Style Guide.

There is no need for anyone to use the term "cis". Just say no.

so many of you seem to wish they did - is that what people really want to happen, to an 18 year old?

No, as people have said, they favour third gender neutral spaces for trans people and anyone else who wishes to join them. Just let the women who need them have spaces without male people please. Have some respect for women and girls. Ask your friends to do so too. Don't perpetuate the idea that the feelings of women and girls are less important.

@ididntevennotice
Your post hasn't gone unnoticed. I'm so glad your child is still here and has found their way through to feeling brighter. I found your post extremely moving. xx

I'm a big believer that you cannot disregard the rights of one group, in order to validate your own.

On OP's son, I'm no psychiatrist but he is suffering from quite serious mental health problems. In addition, he is in a group where several are exploring their genders. It's also a major hot topic. It's bound to make someone vulnerable at the moment, question things. Is it a phase he's going through? Personally, I don't think it is, feels more like his on a journey. He is a young person who at 23, has lost his job & his home due to his MH issues. That's A LOT. He sounds like he is trying to find 'his path' be that what it is & I hope he does.

Where this is going wrong is in the stance he's taking. He's pushing OP to accept his choice, regardless of how she feels. He isn't respecting her rights, whilst insisting she accepts his. I think this is due to immaturity. OP hasn't said (that I've seen) that he's experienced any real prejudice so far, so he has no idea how it actually feels. Issues with his Mum doesn't equate to experiencing full on prejudice, that's when I think he will reconsider his stance with OP & the true impact of his choices will hit home. That's when I feel he will get a real idea of who he is & who he wants to be.

@Bagelsandbrie

The thing about safeguarding womens only spaces is flawed though because despite us having womens only spaces for years, attacks on women still happen. There are lots of transgender people, like my dds best friend, who would use the womens toilet without anyone even suspecting they ever used to be a man. Being transgender isn’t a new thing, however much Mumsnet seems to assume it to be. People have become more accepting of it and therefore people talk about it more and people who might have been afraid to live their life in that way before might feel more able to now - so perhaps it seems like there’s more of it, but it’s always been there. And genuinely trans people have always used their chosen toilet etc and most of them have never been called out for it - or attacked women. My dds friend is a lovely, kind and gentle person and is far more likely to be attacked themselves if they went into the mens toilet as so many of you seem to wish they did - is that what people really want to happen, to an 18 year old?

I really hate the anti trans stuff on Mumsnet. It’s totally out of touch. I’m sorry, but it is.

You're basically advocating for mixed-sex everything? Is that really what you want? Or is it single-sex spaces but allow vulnerable males in (so mixed-sex spaces but tricking everyone to believe it's not)?

Have you actually thought all the way along to the endpoint of what you want?
Any male is now able to enter any female space, literally any man, and can't be challenged. They need to change nothing about themselves at all. Why do people who are wanting this never actually think about the outcomes of it?

Oh, it'll never happen I hear you cry. It's already happening but everyone is looking the other way.

You can call it anti-trans as much as you like, it doesn't make it true.

To OP, I feel very sorry for you and I would have the same issues as you. Sympathies.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

so many of you seem to wish they did - is that what people really want to happen, to an 18 year old?

No, as people have said, they favour third gender neutral spaces for trans people and anyone else who wishes to join them. Just let the women who need them have spaces without male people please. Have some respect for women and girls. Ask your friends to do so too. Don't perpetuate the idea that the feelings of women and girls are less important.

So you want trans people, who are already in a vulnerable group as shown by the views on this thread, to have to use a separate trans identifiable space - because no one who isn’t trans would choose to use a gender neutral space would they? Probably not. So you would create a space where trans people are probably going to be harassed before entering and probably wouldn’t use anyway- if there’s a womens toilet then trans people like my dds best friend would still use that I’m sure. And I have no issue whatsoever with them doing so.

Maybe we should make all toilets individual spaces - like disabled toilets for example. Five Guys in London and many other places already does this. (I know there are lots of other companies and places doing this, it’s just that’s just sprung to mind as an example).

No one is saying the feelings of women and girls are less important. That’s just Mumsnet anti trans nonsense. And it really is similar to the anti gay hatred that was around in years gone by, even if people don’t want to admit that to themselves.

What if he converted to Judaism, chose a different name and started to keep kosher. Would you insist on serving him pork and took a Saturday job because you believe differently.

In your analogy it's the other way round surely? He is the one insisting I follow his religion, regardless of my own beliefs, eschew pork and observe the Sabbath.

@Bagelsandbrie

The thing about safeguarding womens only spaces is flawed though because despite us having womens only spaces for years, attacks on women still happen. There are lots of transgender people, like my dds best friend, who would use the womens toilet without anyone even suspecting they ever used to be a man. Being transgender isn’t a new thing, however much Mumsnet seems to assume it to be. People have become more accepting of it and therefore people talk about it more and people who might have been afraid to live their life in that way before might feel more able to now - so perhaps it seems like there’s more of it, but it’s always been there. And genuinely trans people have always used their chosen toilet etc and most of them have never been called out for it - or attacked women. My dds friend is a lovely, kind and gentle person and is far more likely to be attacked themselves if they went into the mens toilet as so many of you seem to wish they did - is that what people really want to happen, to an 18 year old?

I really hate the anti trans stuff on Mumsnet. It’s totally out of touch. I’m sorry, but it is.

Agree completely. The only changes needed are about making sure all women are safe.

[quote headspin10]@Noisyneighneigh

"Perhaps you're shocked because you haven't thought very deeply about the situation. It is in no way close to same sex attraction. All the family needs to do is accept homosexuality and meet a same sex partner.
If you choose to go along with trans ideology, you must modify your language and pretend to yourself and everyone else that you see a woman when your eyes are screaming man. It's like forcing yourself to say black is white. Sex recognition is innate.

How can you say it's only about the trans identified person when their identity relies on external validation from other people."

Maybe I haven't thought deeply enough about it, but you just said as a gay persons family only need to "accept homosexuality and meet a same sex partner" surely this is** them relying on external validation?

I just don't understand why people have such a problem with it. No one is asking us to become a man? It's their life. [/quote]
@headspin10 if the parents do not accept the child's homosexuality, the child still remains a homosexual. It is a biological reality.
A trans identified person relies on people going along with a falsehood and stereotypes. It is ridiculous and offensive that people tolerate a man calling himself a woman simply because he's grown his hair and wears stereotypically feminine clothing. Some men pass better than others but without this costume people would simply correctly assume his sex. Imagine the way the average heterosexual man looks and sounds: short hair, gender conforming clothes, masculine mannerisms and voice. Would you honestly believe him if he walked into the women's bathroom and said he was a woman too?

You're right. It's their life but women are being robbed of their rightful positions and chucked out of their jobs for stating biological facts. Who is being kind to them?
By "being kind" we have walked into some dystopian nightmare where facts don't matter anymore. By being kind now we are actually doing trans identified people enormous damage in the future. No good will come from long term use of cross sex hormones and unnecessary surgeries.

because no one who isn’t trans would choose to use a gender neutral space would they?

Lots of people would. They would be toilets for anyone, not just transgender people. Dads could take their young daughters in, for example. It would benefit everyone and keep separate single sex facilities to those who need them.

I really hate the anti trans stuff on Mumsnet. It’s totally out of touch. I’m sorry, but it is.

I've been embroiled in this debate since 2015. I remember even just here on MN women were labelled transphobic and swathes of them banned for even expressing the most minor concern. I started a FB group to be able to discuss these matters safely and organise to resist. In that group we deleted and banned people who referred to TW as "he" or mocked TW's appearance. We tried so hard to discuss our worries while "being kind". I have regularly questioned my position over the years because that is what critical thinking people do.

Seven years on I can tell you, you are wrong. The debate becomes ever more mainstream. More respected voices speak up. Ordinary people who didn't know the real TRA agenda are waking up. I discuss these matters in multiple spaces and the discussion has never been more present, relevant and "in touch". It is you that is "out of touch" with your unquestioning acceptance of this ideology. This will go on for a while yet as so many institutions have been captured - Stonewall has a lot to answer for, but their influence is waning - and it's going to take time for the youngsters whose lives and health is in tatters, to grow up and understand what adults allowed them to do to themselves. It's a fad and social contagion right now. Let's see what happens when parents start to see their children unable to reach their potential due to dependence on medication and recovering from their multiple unnecessary surgeries. Even if those parents keep up the charade those around them will see and know that's not what they want for their child and will steer away strenuously.

This ideology is on borrowed time and it's hold may even increase in the short term but it cannot prevail and I really wonder what people who supported it will do then.

@headspin10. Do you remember Rachel Dolezal? What is your opinion of her?

@ididntevennotice

I never really talk about this on here because the opposition is painful and I'm not particularly articulate or even interested in getting involved in a situation where people are saying 'but what about x/y/z'. I have a transgender child MtF which I have come to realise is the 'hated' one. The other way round and it's all 'poor girls' but if it's a boy he is obviously the devil and just doing it to access woman and terrorise them. Anyway, I struggled massively with this but I wasn't willing to risk losing my child (and I don't mean NC, I mean actually losing them) that was a bigger worry to me than anything else. I support and love my child and she is now an adult at university navigating her way through the world. That for me was the ultimate factor. That she lived.

We need to do better as a society for all women, thank you for sharing.

I'm 100% in favour of single cubicle unisex toilets and changing rooms.

@YellowBrickWall

What if he converted to Judaism, chose a different name and started to keep kosher. Would you insist on serving him pork and took a Saturday job because you believe differently.

In your analogy it's the other way round surely? He is the one insisting I follow his religion, regardless of my own beliefs, eschew pork and observe the Sabbath.

Exactly - and also whilst living in your house.