“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

but then I learnt that funeral costs for children in the UK are free

That's a relatively basic one - limited or no choice of casket, certain fees must still be paid, as must anything above the basics that funeral directors will provide for free. If you want anything extra, or if the funeral will be not local (if family want to go 'home' to a more meaningful place) then costs can rack up. And things like flowers and wreathes won't be included

I've seen loads of stories like these over the years, and I don't think I can ever remember one where it didn't later emerge the dog was a pit bull, a Staffordshire bull terrier, or (as in this case) one very closely related to those two breeds. The story is generally reported before the breed is known, so surely it can't be due to media bias against these breeds.

As soon as I read the headline about this baby's death, I knew what the dog would turn out to be one of a very narrow list of breeds. And it can't all be blamed on bad ownership (although that certainly plays a part) , as plenty of irresponsible owners get chihuahuas, Labradors and suchlike and mistreat them.

That's a relatively basic one - limited or no choice of casket, certain fees must still be paid, as must anything above the basics that funeral directors will provide for free. If you want anything extra, or if the funeral will be not local (if family want to go 'home' to a more meaningful place) then costs can rack up. And things like flowers and wreathes won't be included
I’m not convinced I’m afraid.

The go fund me so soon after her death then the arrangement of a big party, music, balloon release etc.

No I’m sorry, it doesn’t feel right.

Your gorgeous little baby has just been ripped apart by a dog that you brought into the home and less than 24 hours later you are able to set up a fundraising page for her funeral?
Less than 48 hours later you’ve managed to arrange and promote a big party and balloon release in her memorial?
It doesn’t sound like a ‘normal’ reaction to what’s happened.

If someone had set it up on their behalf I’d have no issue but setting up your own GFM is…odd.

@HotnSunnyRainbowRoses

I will probably get a ban for this but I dont care. What utter utter scum. Any normal human beings would be prostrate with grief but they have managed to set up fund raising events within the space of 48 hours? Its all attention seeking and nothing to do with the horrific death of that little baby. Scum. I’m sorry to say I completely agree with you *@MrsBerthaRochester* I thought it was odd at the time when gofundme was announced for funeral costs but thought funeral costs are expensive, maybe they really can’t afford it (though as you say, I can’t imagine a normal loving parent being able to think and organise things like that 24hours later) but then I learnt that funeral costs for children in the UK are free. I agree, they are utter, utter scum.

Perhaps they want money for extras? Like I know funerals for children are free but I imagine that only covers the basics. Maybe they are hoping to raise money for a grave stone or a special coffin. I hate thinking or writing about a funeral for a child, it feels horrible. But I thought it was worth mentioning because I don’t think them wanting an extra special funeral for their child means they are ‘scum’. R.I.P heart breaking

@toomuchlaundry

Aren’t labradors responsible for most attacks as they are one of the most owned dogs in this country?

KC registered dogs yes they are in top 3. But if you take in account unregistered dogs the staffy is by far the most popular in uk or it was but it seems to be falling out of fashion and now these XL bully's are gaining in popularity.

True Staffys are small dogs 14-16" and max 17kg.

Anything bigger than this then it's unlikely a staffy and will be a staffy x

Once you start crossing breeds , temperament can often be what's comprised.

It doesn’t sound like a ‘normal’ reaction to what’s happened.

I have a problem with this statement. Everyone is different and reacts differently to trauma. There is no normal.

There have been traumatic events in my lifetime where my reaction was to get busy.

True Staffys are small dogs 14-16" and max 17kg
17kg isn’t small.
My collie is 15kg and the height of a small Labrador.

I have a problem with this statement. Everyone is different and reacts differently to trauma. There is no normal
True of course and I hope I’m wrong.
It just seems off to me.

I think it is off.

My SIL created a gofundme for her daughters funeral, even though it was free for her (they didn’t do anything with extra costs). She said they could do with the money. They didn’t want flowers - if asked, they asked for the cash instead. It all left a very strange feeling. People felt helpless that a child died so gave money. I don’t know.

I’m amazed people still take these massive dogs in when they have little babies.

I don’t understand the argument that labs and other popular breeds bite more. This is true but there are far more them so obviously this increases the likelihood. I am much less likely to come across a badger in town centre than I would in a rural, woodland area.

A purebred Labrador, for example, that’s been poorly trained and not socialised may well bite. This is why you’d never leave any dog unsupervised around any child. However, the fatal attacks are almost always from the same small number of breeds.

Nobody said they bite more, just that there are more bites by them which is for exactly the reason you said, more labradors.

However, the fatal attacks are almost always from the same small number of breeds

See the posts earlier in the thread about what sort of people own what sort of breeds.

Then you'll see why it's an owner issue

@HotnSunnyRainbowRoses

True Staffys are small dogs 14-16" and max 17kg 17kg isn’t small. My collie is 15kg and the height of a small Labrador.

That's and unusual size/shape for a collie

Their breed maximum is 22 inches, weighing 19kg

Labrador is to 24.5 inches and weighing 34 kg

American Bullies are classified by height not weight, and the sizing is

pocket: m 14-17 inches f 13 -16
standard: m 17-20 inches f 16-19
XL: m 21-23 inches f 20-22

Weight is up to 60 kg

It's the weight that's the issue - especially in a dog that's not particularly tall (so all muscle) Other dogs who can weigh the same of more include: Great Dane, Leonburger, Newfoundland, Mastiff (not Bull Mastiff, they're slightly but only slightly smaller), Pyrenean Mountain Dog, St Bernard

@RoseAndRose leonbergers are a lot taller than that, somewhere around 28-30 inches.

However, knowing Leo’s and Newfie’s very well having met hundreds, I can see why criminals don’t bother using them. Why try and train a totally different personality into a dog when it’s already there in another.

Just went on the banned list and children and I had a look at each of them over breakfast and watched some videos

Absolutely terrifying.

Monsters. Both those who breed them and the dogs themselves

Yes, I know.

All the breeds that typically exceed 60kg are much taller than American Bully. It's a sign of how much muscle it has.

The 'demon' dogs used to be GSD, Rottweilers and Dobermans

There is, I think, a definite fashion amongst problem owners. Ban one and it'll move on to another one.

@RoseAndRose

The 'demon' dogs used to be GSD, Rottweilers and Dobermans

There is, I think, a definite fashion amongst problem owners. Ban one and it'll move on to another one.

And then Staffies but they are slowly being replaced by XL bully's

I don't see the difference between dogs bred to fight and dogs bred to hunt . Both are designed to kill, yet for some reason people push hunting dogs are amazing pets and demon fighting breeds

I think the issues is clueless humans. So many people should own dogs that do. That's the issue.

Yes, not so much proper Staffies as Staffy-cross-something-bigger

And agree with you completely about clueless humans - plus of course and even worse, those who deliberately make their dogs aggressive

@Indoctro the vast majority of hunting dogs (other than terriers/ratters) don’t actually kill do they? There’s obviously exceptions but I thought the majority flush out the prey or alert the Hunter and the human makes the kill. I don’t do hundogs etc as a rule but I thought they mainly assisted the human. There are breeds like dogo Argentino which fight big game but those are banned so it says it all

I don’t know why I just personally can’t get away with dogs that are bred to fight eachother or want to kill other dogs. It seems very wrong to me. I know any dog can become reactive but to breed a dog with a trait for wanting to kill its own species seems awful considering there are so many happy well balanced dogs on the planet.

Gundogs obviously not hundogs although I could be onto something there

@RoseAndRose

Yes, not so much proper Staffies as Staffy-cross-something-bigger

And agree with you completely about clueless humans - plus of course and even worse, those who deliberately make their dogs aggressive

Yes like when idiots cross a staffy with a guarding breed, that is asking for trouble

Fighting breeds should never be crossed with guarding breeds but idiots do and temperament is often comprised.

Humans are the real issue . The XL bully has been bred from all manner of different breeds , based purely on looks and no thought out into how the temperament of mixes all these breeds.

Plus people don't think about the breed and the life it needs. I have a staffy , it's a highly energetic and intelligent breed and needs a outlet for this. He does canicross, agility and scent classes. This allows him to use his mind and his energy. If I didn't have the time to dedicate to this I would never of got this breed, I would have needed to look at low energy lap dogs, who are contented with a couple walks a day and that's it.

@RoseAndRose

The 'demon' dogs used to be GSD, Rottweilers and Dobermans

There is, I think, a definite fashion amongst problem owners. Ban one and it'll move on to another one.

Staffys are becoming quite gentrified. There are four or five that walk regularly in the park we use - almost entirely middle-class, middle-aged owners. Only one is a family pet, and the children are into their teens. The only one that's likely to be any trouble is the one that the owner claims to have 'fully trained' as an emotional support dog* despite it still being less than a year old. Unfortunately the owner can't read the emotions of either human or animal and they allow it off-lead. Not seen that one in a while.

The 'status' dogs are now much heavier-set bull-breeds - either claimed pedigree, or some ridiculous crossed combination. There are one or two of these about, but they're not regulars - the park's maybe a bit too far from the estates. Head to that part of town and it's not just the dog, it's the studded leather harness/collar and chain-lead. Buying to breed is seen as easy money, but they have no idea of bloodlines or managing the genetics.

The power difference between a labrador and a Staffy, if you take them as about the same weight, is that the Staffy has more pull due to the shorter legs and a gait that's more front-wheel drive than rear. Lab's push off with the back legs, whilst Staffys pull with the front. They're so front-heavy that a Staffy is usually a very poor swimmer.

_

• the number of people 'training' their own ESD dogs is perhaps a subject for another thread. Some of the breeds they're choosing, and the frequency you encounter them in the supermarket - it seems all I need to do to take our dog shopping is put a yellow tabard on her and wear a rainbow lanyard.