“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

I think it really does depend on how much history is known of the dog. We have an adult rescue, but we know a fair bit about her history (had lived with young children - ours are older - and been removed because of safeguarding concerns about the parent with their child/home conditions, not concerns about the dog’s behaviour, then had lived with an older gentleman who eventually couldn’t manage walking her - same rescue involved throughout). You do see it on Dog House occasionally when they’re rehoming the strays and once in the home there’s an incident - reactive to cats or other dogs. But this clearly wasn’t a rescue situation with any kind of assessment or checks and balances, seems to have been a private purchase.

What the hell was going through those parents minds when they got that dog , they don't know the history and by the sound of it the breed is undetermined too. Yes they have lost their daughter but they have been extremely negligent , that poor poor girl .

I have to vote get a puppy for anyone with children of primary age
Not sure I agree with either tbh, any idiot can turn a puppy in to an absolute menace of a dog if they don’t know, and don’t want to learn, anything about dogs. Case in point, acquaintances of ours bought a Ridgeback puppy with no previous experience of any dogs, did no research and sought no help from anyone who might have been able to advise early on how to approach training etc. Now have a 40 odd kg dog aggressive dog that also doesn’t like ‘strangers’ and has to be walked at night or early hours of the morning to avoid people and dogs.

I can't understand it at all. We got a rescue GSD but have no children, and won't have any in the house. Even out walking I don't let children pet her....just in case she reacts badly.

Getting a fully grown staffy type with a toddler is absolutely crazy.

Not just homes with young DC. Unless extensive experience with raising dogs - getting any adult breed is irresponsible according to the interview

I can't agree with that. There are certain breeds where experience is needed, but is he seriously saying an adult only household shouldn't even adopt an adult small breed dog, or a breed known to have very low aggression levels?

As long as you have idiots buying cute puppies and then dumping them when they get bored or realise they have to actually train them, it will sadly be necessary for people to continue to adopt adult dogs. If shelters close, you'll get a lot more people just stuffing them in a sack and slinging them in the lake, like they did in the bad old days.

Awful, awful story but the sweeping statement just isn’t true and is far too simplistic.

I rehomed two adult golden retrievers with the most gentle temperaments of any dogs I’ve known before or since.

... when a dog attacks there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Better to just not have a massive pitbull type you’ve just bought from some random in a house with children.

Couldn't agree more. How many more of these stories do we have to read from these idiots who bring unknown powerful dogs in to their houses with children?

You'd have to be incredibly cautious bringing a dog into a house with a toddler. It's worse than doing it with a young baby because toddlers can move around - which in itself can be scary for a nervous dog in a new environment, let alone the fussing, grabbing and climbing.

@MalbecandToast

It says "bought" not rescued. Rescue places won't rehome with children for exactly this reason.

But so many people with young children see this as an imposition on their right to own a dog. Even on MN there are regular posts in Dog House about people with young children going to the less reputable 'rescue' agencies and/or importing overseas rescue dogs to get around this.

Even if it does turn out to be a Pitbull within the meaning of the DDA, it's 100% the parents at fault for buying that dog and putting it with that child. Nothing will change until the emphasis is on responsible dog ownership and not on demonizing specific breeds. Some breeds are totally unsuitable for a family home, but it's the owner that puts the dog into that situation.

@Bearfrills

It's a bit harsh to say neglect charges should be considered or that the parents have acted irresponsibly when not all the circumstances are known yet. A family has lost their baby, that alone is cruel enough without people online speculating about whether they were to blame.

If you do something irresponsible that could reasonably be seen to present a risk to a child then that is neglect. It's like having a massive open fireplace in your living room and if a toddling baby falls in you say "it was just an accident, surely losing your baby is enough punishment?"

@Glenthebattleostrich

I am a childminder and we have a rescue. She was a litter of puppies dumped at 6 weeks old with a local rescue and she has been an amazing addition to our setting and family. That being said, she's never left alone with children (minded or otherwise) and has had extensive training with a behaviourist and trainer.

When I stop minding and when my DD is 13 we are looking to add to the family and want a rescue of adolescent or older. I would never ever ever consider bringing an adult dog into my home when I don't know its history. Add to that the poor animal would be incredibly unsettled and scared increasing the risk of fear aggression and would need our full attention not just a few pats and a tin of dog food while settling (my parents dogs have all been rescued so have some experience).

The so called expert sounds like an idiot though.

I genuinely wish people would consider the commitment a cute puppy actually is before passing them along the line.

Out of interest When you were childminding and you got the puppy - did any parents withdraw their child? I would have done

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

His point was
With any breed, any breed at all
If you get them as an adult, you don’t know their past triggers and fears until they arise

It sounds like the dog is the common scenario of being bought off a random person (either stolen or passed along like dogs often are). As a result people end up with a dog they know nothing about.

There’s still such a lack of responsible dog ownership in this country. So many people take on dogs without researching the breed or the person they’re getting it from which makes it so easy for stolen dogs and backyard breeders to make an easy profit and face no scrutiny.

"Don't do it under any circumstances" is too black and white. I totally get "Only do it if you understand that after a month or so a lot of behaviour based on past trauma comes to light and it may be extremely challenging and require a lot of training and still never get to 'perfect'", that is true and people should go into it with eyes open. I wouldn't have done it with young kids, but that's with hindsight.

Absolutely agree Doginatent. These parents made a really poor decision and put their own wants over the safety of the child. They would never have been allowed to have this dog via a rescue centre and rightly so. They must have known this was an unsafe thing to do and the toddler has paid the price.

I'm not sure. I always believed that if you had children you should have a puppy so you can ensure you know the history and raise them as you wish. However, when our Rottweiler (worlds most amazing dog) passed away, we got another dog a while later. DMIL was working with German Shepard rescues and said she would get is a rescue. I refused as I felt it was too dangerous to not know a dogs history. We got an Akita. This dog has been raised with so much love and affection but something happened in his first weeks of life (or he is just a sensitive and anxious nature) that makes him flinchy, food possessive, scared of everything and unsure. We know how to handle him but it's been a learning curve. In the wrong hands, he would be dangerous. My friend got a rescue adult presa canerio at the same time. Amazing dog, calm and steady and great with children. DMIL also has a few rescues in her house that are all amazing family dogs. Ultimately, I think you can't know what you're getting yourself into. You can only do your best to pick a good dog.

What I would say is that people should have training/licences and approval from an appointing body prior to being able to get a dog.

My point is that no one knows the exact circumstances yet as the police haven't finished investigating.

[quote tallulahtoo78]@JesusInTheCabbageVan

His point was
With any breed, any breed at all
If you get them as an adult, you don’t know their past triggers and fears until they arise[/quote]
You don't, but the risk to an adult from a small/naturally non-aggressive breed dog is always going to be low. It's insane to suggest that nobody should ever adopt an adult dog just in case it gives you a nip.

It’ll be the usual kind of dog and the usual kind of owner. It always is. Poor wee girl

*@Babadook76 "*They don’t know but I’m assuming pit bull type as it’s suspected of being a banned breed. I’ve got two large guarding types, but they were bought as puppies and raised correctly with the children. I don’t know what was going through these peoples heads. And it’s driving me mad all the people sticking up for them on social media saying things like ‘leave them alone, losing a child is punishment enough’. But like fuck it is imo. That baby’s suffered an horrific death due to her parents stupidity. I think parents should do time over things like this."

I totally agree with you as a multiple dog owner too. The reason this keeps happening is because people aren't being held accountable and education seems pointless. Certain people always 'know best' and are too arrogant to realise their great ideas are at best, rash, at worst, damn well dangerous.

Were the owners and previous owners of that XLBully thing that killed a boy last year ever made accountable for his horrific, avoidable death? That had only been recently purchased too.

All these egos are resulting in horrific deaths at an unacceptable level of occurrence.

The problem isn't with the dog though, let's be honest. All dogs are products of their environments, and for most dogs like this, it's being kept in a confined space, little or no exercise or mental stimulation and being baited by the male owner to show how "hard" he is.

But @JesusInTheCabbageVan

Unless you never take the dog out or never have the dog in the vicinity of children, then the risk is not just to adults, is it?

I strongly suspect this is a dog they've bought off some irresponsible website where it was too much of a handful for someone who got it in lockdown.

It isn't a 'rescue' in the proper sense where appropriate checks are done to make sure it's suitable for re-homing and stating the conditions require in any new home.

Parents absolutely should not have brought such a dog into a home with a young child.

We were desperate to rehome a dog, we couldn't as we had primary school aged children. I thought this was annoying as there are so many dogs needing homes. BUT this is why! This poor family. Its horrendous. I have seen a dog attack another dog before and it took 3 men at least five minutes to separate them and they were desperately trying with all their strength. Once a dog is in attack mode it really isn't as simple as pulling it off or asking it to let go.