Ukrainian invasion part 13

[Alexandra2001]

Seems to be required.

This reshuffling of the world politics is more intense than Covid

.. and much longer lasting.

I fear that Putin's malice and patriotism will have effects for a very long time to come, and not in a positive way. But perhaps Im looking on the black side

@MarshaBradyo

This reshuffling of the world politics is more intense than Covid

Well it's right royally **ed the free-floating UK in it's never-ending quest for "deals". First off we obviously can't get into anything with a Russia-backing country for a start.

Supposedly Estonia is saying they support a No Fly Zone but want the UN to implement it, no NATO. I can’t see it happening at this point to be honest.

Alec Luhn @ASLuhn
At least 4 Russian state TV executives have quit (!) after the on-air protest by producer Maria Ovsyannikova, according to journalist Roman Super.
"If not for our debts, we'd quit too," he says others are saying (h/t @IlyaYashin)

Meanwhile Ovsyannikova has been released after being interrogated for 14 hours & fined, she says. But she doesn't answer a question about the criminal case still being considered by investigators. @meduzaproject

Just leave this here to remind everyone that Farage is also a Russian shill.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/flashback-to-when-farage-and-the-brexit-party-voted-against-plans-to-tackle-russian-propaganda-in-european-parliament-316240/

[quote wonderfullife123]@AgnesWestern just this from Telegraph - only speculation though.

Volodymyr Zelensky said Ukraine must recognise it will never join Nato.

The Ukrainian president’s comments sparked speculation that he could be laying the groundwork for a peace deal with Moscow, which wants Kyiv barred from joining the alliance.[/quote]
Did he check on here before making this statement?

There are posters on here who have decreed that any suggestion that NATO expansion is in some way a factor in the war in Ukraine is Kremlin propaganda.

I wonder how long before they're calling him a bot or shill?

I don’t see it as confirming that tbh

As the whole NATO expansion justifies this invasion is just I made him hit me

The only person responsible for the aggression is Putin

@MarshaBradyo

No one said it made Putin do anything.

I just hope someone can inform Zelensky that NATO or non-NATO status cannot and will not make a difference to Russia/Ukraine relations. The MN experts said so.

Has anyone noticed the war seems to have dropped out of social media? Or is it just due to my algorithm as I’ve been trying to avoid it for my mental health.

Finally caught up on this threads. The military situation is worrying; even though the Ukrainian army and people have shown incredible fortitude, it seems that the Russian army is now advancing on Kyiv. They also don’t seem to hold back with indiscriminately bombing civilians and I fear that the battle for Kyiv will turn into a horrific bloodbath.
How brave of Marina Ovsyannikova to protest on live Russian TV - Russia needs to end this war now, the humanitarian cost is so awful
I have a question for the more knowledgeable Mumsnetters - how likely is it that if Putin I were to occupy Ukraine, he would then set his sights on other former Soviet republics e.g. Georgia, Moldova, the Baltic states?

Sorry again, don't know how to link from twitter.

I also don't know if this is a reliable source so forgive me if it's not.

I just keep hoping something positive comes from these peace talks one of these days.

Right now Ukraine has hard choices, it is being hammered and NATO might be what they let go to get out of this

I don’t think that confirms that NATO situation warranted this war

The problem with history is a) its generally written by the winners and b) we tend to best remember the bits we are proud of and not dwell too deeply on the more 'interesting' escapades. The UK has certainly been involved in various 'interesting' escapades in fairly recent history.

The only country that I think we have been 'loyal' to for any long period of time is America ? And probably only because they are much bigger than us !

@MarshaBradyo

No one's saying it warranted it. Nothing warrants wars of aggression and slaughter of civilians. They still happen though. We're talking about what actually did happen, whether we like it or not. All the "Oh but that's victim blaming" and drawing analogies between it and DV is just toss which did nothing to help Ukraine.

[quote Yeahthat]@MarshaBradyo

No one's saying it warranted it. Nothing warrants wars of aggression and slaughter of civilians. They still happen though. We're talking about what actually did happen, whether we like it or not. All the "Oh but that's victim blaming" and drawing analogies between it and DV is just toss which did nothing to help Ukraine.[/quote]
I don’t even accept it was the cause.

We’d still be here whether people think NATO expansion was at fault or not.

So yes you’re right it’s just arguing the toss and apportioning blame where it’s not warranted.

@AgnesWestern

I've definitely noticed that too. I've also noticed the BBC reporting various other news stories that are not Ukraine related where as at the beginning it was just constant reporting of the war.

My Instagram has never showed me anything Ukraine related and I see less things trending on twitter about it.

These threads and other threads I am on elsewhere have also slowed down massively compared to the beginning when I just couldn't keep up. I don't know the reason for this though, my guess would be people have lost interest as it's not fresh news anymore.

Although you do seem delighted by his message

I find it very sad

Ukraine had it as part of their constitution, it’s what the people wanted.

Incidentally has anyone watched Winter on Fire? Such aggression

@MarshaBradyo

Yes, our talk changes nothing. But the point is that if peace can be gained through accepting a neutral stance, could war have been avoided.

It must be quite confusing and embarrassing for the MN experts who were very clear that "It's not about NATO", now seeing Zelensky apparently using a guarantee of neutral status as the basis for a peace deal.

I'm not delighted at all. There's only less or more horrible options for Ukraine now.

[quote Yeahthat]@MarshaBradyo

Yes, our talk changes nothing. But the point is that if peace can be gained through accepting a neutral stance, could war have been avoided.

It must be quite confusing and embarrassing for the MN experts who were very clear that "It's not about NATO", now seeing Zelensky apparently using a guarantee of neutral status as the basis for a peace deal.

I'm not delighted at all. There's only less or more horrible options for Ukraine now.[/quote]
I’m not embarrassed but then I have not claimed to be an expert so maybe I’m exempt.

I still think the only person to blame is Putin so no confusion either.

[quote holliem91]@AgnesWestern

I've definitely noticed that too. I've also noticed the BBC reporting various other news stories that are not Ukraine related where as at the beginning it was just constant reporting of the war.

My Instagram has never showed me anything Ukraine related and I see less things trending on twitter about it.

These threads and other threads I am on elsewhere have also slowed down massively compared to the beginning when I just couldn't keep up. I don't know the reason for this though, my guess would be people have lost interest as it's not fresh news anymore. [/quote]
This was always likely to happen, at the beginning it was the shock of it and it was all new. Now it almost seems normal (obviously it's not).

It does seem now Zelenskey may be laying ground work for a peace deal. No doubt he will blame the west for not standing up to aggression (fair point but needed to avoid a bigger war)

“tearsforfears72

Finally caught up on this threads. The military situation is worrying; even though the Ukrainian army and people have shown incredible fortitude, it seems that the Russian army is now advancing on Kyiv. They also don’t seem to hold back with indiscriminately bombing civilians and I fear that the battle for Kyiv will turn into a horrific bloodbath.
How brave of Marina Ovsyannikova to protest on live Russian TV - Russia needs to end this war now, the humanitarian cost is so awful
I have a question for the more knowledgeable Mumsnetters - how likely is it that if Putin I were to occupy Ukraine, he would then set his sights on other former Soviet republics e.g. Georgia, Moldova, the Baltic states?“

Maria Ovsyannikova has been fined about £200. Perhaps they thought she was too well known. Let’s hope she will remain ok.

So we have a government in the pockets of (or at least unwisely tied up with) Russian oligarchs and trying to extricate themselves without too much embarrassment (and failing).

Our major economic hopes are with either the US (who don’t seem that keen), India and China - who we may have to sanction if they’re throwing their lot in with Russia.

Then there’s Saudi Arabia.

So we either follow the US when they tell us to sanction India and China next (and fuck our economy without even using lube) or we don’t (and essentially become part of the bad guys group.)

Yaaay Brexit! And I wonder how much our pensions are tied up in property developments funded by Russian/ Saudi/ Chinese interests.

Previous curfews have been about identifying potential Russian infiltrators as much as public safety so it could be about ensuring the safety of the EU delegation.

Seeing lots of online comments about Russia socking it to American imperialism, mentioning the number of worldwide US military bases as compared to Russian as a gotcha. Not only is that line totally illogical given Russia's current behaviour and history, but it doesn't recognise that this isn't going to be about the US versus Russia but about the democratic bloc versus the autocratic bloc; that China, the Middle East and Russia have been buying up a huge amount of influence in the last few years; and that most western people who haven't given a second thought to NATO, nuclear weapons and American military bases are now suddenly thinking those are not such bad things to have at your back.

Do you remember when Robin Cook became foreign secretary and the buzzwords were about an ethical foreign policy? We've just been sold out to corrupt regimes by venal, craven politicians and now the price is massive. They sucked up to despots and now these people have leverage. They thought that democracy and human rights would rub off through World Cups and Olympics and globalisation but these gangsters were just biding their time. You kind of expect politicians to be corrupt or inept but I can't believe how trusting ours have been; how they've looked at leaders who oppress their own people and haven't realised that they would dish out that same treatment to us given the first opportunity.

@Tuba437

I know and to be honest I think that's because most don't realise just how serious this situation is and how it can/is affecting us. But having said that, I wish I was one of those people that just didn't care as much because I wouldn't be a nervous wreck 24/7

I really hope so. I keep seeing positives, then negatives and then positives again regarding peace talks.