Ukrainian invasion part 13

[Alexandra2001]

Seems to be required.

@EsmaCannonball

NATO has to be more threatening, IMO. Cowering, and playing nice and being non-threatening trusts everything to Russia's power of mercy and use of reason, which as we've seen is non-existent. They need to stop talking so much about what they won't do and start telling Putin about what they could do.

This isn't NATO's war.

NATO isn't world police, or Europe police.

UN as currently set up cannot deal with this.

There is no supranational body, let alone an armed one, capable of dealing with this

Are you not concerned about escalation, including nuclear Dolce?

@MarshaBradyo

I think we need to stop reacting emotionally and keep calm

I know it’s hard but the escalation part is no small point.

I don't think I am acting emotionally, just the recent news has escalated how I feel. I wish I hadn't posted now as this has been such a good thread, and my doomsday feeling isn't what is needed. Once again I do get why we can't get involved. Sorry to everyone that might be feeling mad at me.

@Iwasfeelingepic

I completely understand the sentiment, but I don't have much faith in our own leaders' ability to make rational decisions - although Jens Stoltenberg has been a reassuring presence - so I do think that even we the public have a responsibility not to ratchet up the discourse around escalating the conflict.

@LaDoIceVita didn't say people with children can't. I used it as an example as the poster specifically mentioned her child!

And no actually the people I've spoken to in real life and some on previous threads seem to think that NATO has a magic wand that will make everything better which is so far from the truth! If nato steps in more death and more destruction will follow. Also let's not forget that if nato steps in support for Ukraine (practical support) would begin to drop as weapons were moved around etc

Iwas I understand, no need to be sorry

I avoid the news or headlines as they heightened my emotional response.

I’m not in the dark as listen to radio and I find that much more calming.

It’s a really hard situation though and we’re all reacting in best way we can

@MarshaBradyo

Are you not concerned about escalation, including nuclear Dolce?

I don't think nuclear is likely. Escalation - of course that would happen if NATO sends troops in. I think people's views on that are swayed by their opinion as to whether this will stop with Ukraine. Personally, I'm far from convinced that it will.

@Iwasfeelingepic You're fine. I think a lot of us feel teeth-gnashing rage and horror.

Faisal Islam
Worth hearing Putin attempt to urge the Russian people to “spit out” what he calls “scum” and “traitors” from a pro-west “fifth column” in Russia as part of a process of “self purification” of people that want to help “destroy Russia” HT @just_whatever
twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1504159499040526338?s=21

Video in link

I was feeling epic.

This is a chat forum, in RL pepper area saying they wished they could do x or that we could do z or sneak in and take him out.

We are People chatting this isn't the NATO control room with fingers hovering over the button.
The panic some poster's show When an emotion bursts through

@Iwasfeelingepic i feel the same way, on an emotional level i am furious and want someone to make a stand against russia and stop what is happening, its like watching everyone try and keep the school bully happy.

On a more rational level i am glad the people in charge of making these decisions are calm and trying to de-escalate or at the least not escalate things further and i understand why Nato are unable to step in.

So re: peace talks, I assume they didn’t reach an agreement, so when is the next round? I’m assuming there will be some more at some point.

@DuncinToffee

Faisal Islam Worth hearing Putin attempt to urge the Russian people to “spit out” what he calls “scum” and “traitors” from a pro-west “fifth column” in Russia as part of a process of “self purification” of people that want to help “destroy Russia” HT *@just*_whatever twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1504159499040526338?s=21

Video in link

I wonder if the DailyMailski had a headline ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE

The issue for me with NATO getting involved is that the Russian army wouldn’t manage against the full force of NATO so Putin would have to resort to other non conventional methods. That’s where nuclear warfare comes in and it could happen very easily/escalate quickly into this scenario which would benefit nobody. And the refugees who have escaped Ukraine would be put in further danger once again, along with most of the world’s population.

@AgnesWestern

So re: peace talks, I assume they didn’t reach an agreement, so when is the next round? I’m assuming there will be some more at some point.

Aren't they ongoing?

@Papertyger

I was feeling epic.

This is a chat forum, in RL pepper area saying they wished they could do x or that we could do z or sneak in and take him out.

We are People chatting this isn't the NATO control room with fingers hovering over the button.
The panic some poster's show When an emotion bursts through

I don’t think it’s panic and think that’s a bit patronising.

I understand the emotional response but I don’t agree

My understanding is that talks are continuing

Christ, that is video of Putin is frightening.

I read that video as a sign he’s worried the oligarchs might turn on him. Anyone else? Talking about those who earn money on Russia but live elsewhere.

@MarshaBradyo

I think we need to stop reacting emotionally and keep calm

I know it’s hard but the escalation part is no small point.

In fairness, we can react however we like - it’s an emotive situation. We’re on a chat forum … we’re not the people making the decisions, so we can let emotion take over all we want.

@Igotjelly

I read that video as a sign he’s worried the oligarchs might turn on him. Anyone else? Talking about those who earn money on Russia but live elsewhere.

Yeah, he is definitely feeling the pressure. I hope.

In fairness, we can react however we like

Tbh I don’t get where he confidence comes from that it won’t escalate to nuclear war so when I see we must DO something I think why are people so sure

Why are you confident it won’t escalate?

@PippinStar

People can absolutely react however they want. But we're in a world now where Prime Ministers will make or reverse policies based on what's tweeted at them. Public discourse is more important than ever, and we can play a role by not creating the context for escalation.

@Igotjelly

I read that video as a sign he’s worried the oligarchs might turn on him. Anyone else? Talking about those who earn money on Russia but live elsewhere.

Yes, and I think for the first time he actually looks worried

Marsha.

Posters on here expressing something, eg frustration, are not going to actually create that escalation.

I know some think Putin's is keeping tabs specifically on Mumsnet but this paranoia is getting ridiculous.
It's a chat forum, many of us feel shocked, hopeless, frustrated, depressed, scared and it's fine to express that here because it's a supportive chat forum and chatting is helpful.