Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Ukrainian invasion part 13

999 replies

Alexandra2001 · 15/03/2022 07:40

Seems to be required.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
AgnesWestern · 16/03/2022 14:26

@RedToothBrush

Well i hadn't read the latest Igor Sushko tweets until after my last post just.

To put it bluntly theres a single tweet in that which encapsulates the entire western problem with its response now:

Current Russia has no survival outside of a military expansion regime.

Note the countries who are saying the same. Doing things like say 'send the planes and visiting). This is what Zelensky himself is saying.

Note those who are not.

So yeah, probs best not thinking about it too much.

Can you explain what this means? Sorry I’m confused.
MagicFox · 16/03/2022 14:29

@EsmaCannonball

It terms of the new world order, it's hhappening regardless of the outcome of this war. It's either autocracies versus democracies with Russia having won the war in Ukraine, or autocracies versus democracies with Russia having lost the war. I'd prefer the latter.

But one key thing that complicates this binary: we will have to work together on global issues - climate change for example. So there needs to be some softening surely

Notonthestairs · 16/03/2022 14:30

Ukraine have joined the EU Energy Union so they are now part of a single supply system. Can anyone explain how this works practically? Ie does it mean that Russia can't meddle? Will it mean that areas without electricity at the moment might get power?

RedToothBrush · 16/03/2022 14:40

It means we are fucked cos the only way Putin's Russia survives is by going totalitarian fascist. And thats in progress.

WWII was born from an aggrieved state punished by the Versailles Peace Settlement of WWI. Hitler offered nationalism as the solution out of the poverty that the settlement created.

Bar an internal revolution (unlikely) theres a problem with every settlement thats possible, if Putins survival is only ensured by going totalitarian fascist expansionist.

Thats what is being identified by the countries that bore the brunt of it previously. The countries that ignored it, aren't seeing it.

I think this is the 'Houston we have a problem' moment. And Ive been pondering it a while. China's moves only serve to solidify my worry with it.

We don't solve it by sitting back and leaving Ukraine. We can. But I don't think it protects us anyway unfortunately. All it does is give time for Putin to rebuild and refocus. Whilst we sit on hands and not be prepared.

EsmaCannonball · 16/03/2022 14:41

Oksana Platero! (I'm right in the middle of the War in Ukraine/Fans of Strictly Venn diagram.) Nikita and Nadiya are from Ukraine (one of Nikita's grandmothers has got out but his other set of grandparents is still there. Not sure where Nadiya's mother and extended family are based.) Motsi is married to a Ukrainian. (I think her husband's parents have escaped but not sure about the rest of his family.) Luba and Katya are both Russian. IIRC, Katya's father is a wealthy oil executive. (Not sure if that has any significance.) Apologies to everyone interested in actual geo-politics.

MagicFox · 16/03/2022 14:44

@RedToothBrush

It means we are fucked cos the only way Putin's Russia survives is by going totalitarian fascist. And thats in progress.

WWII was born from an aggrieved state punished by the Versailles Peace Settlement of WWI. Hitler offered nationalism as the solution out of the poverty that the settlement created.

Bar an internal revolution (unlikely) theres a problem with every settlement thats possible, if Putins survival is only ensured by going totalitarian fascist expansionist.

Thats what is being identified by the countries that bore the brunt of it previously. The countries that ignored it, aren't seeing it.

I think this is the 'Houston we have a problem' moment. And Ive been pondering it a while. China's moves only serve to solidify my worry with it.

We don't solve it by sitting back and leaving Ukraine. We can. But I don't think it protects us anyway unfortunately. All it does is give time for Putin to rebuild and refocus. Whilst we sit on hands and not be prepared.

You'd hope there'd be higher ups recognising this surely. Surely there will be some kind of reintegration of Russia for exactly this reason?

EsmaCannonball · 16/03/2022 14:47

Sorry, the above post was in reply, and failed to quote, the previous poster re: Judge Rinder helping Oksana's relatives. I'm not just randomly obsessing about Strictly (although, Zelenskyy .....)

DGRossetti · 16/03/2022 14:52

Bar an internal revolution (unlikely)

Quite ironic, really, considering Russias history.

I killed the Tzar and his ministers; Anastasia screamed in vain

EsmaCannonball · 16/03/2022 14:53

Yesterday, I think, Russia quit the Council of Europe before it was expelled. This will allow Russia to roll back even further on human rights.

notimagain · 16/03/2022 14:58

@strawberriesarenot

RedToothBrush

Thank you.
I think I worded my question badly.
I understand completely about the no fly zone.

What I don't understand is why the Polish planes cannot be sold to Ukraine.

Despite the rhetoric transferring/selling/spiriting across the border “MiGs” various may not be a panacea.

As I think was mentioned a week or two back due to possible differences in weapons fits, weapons compatibility with aircraft wiring and hard points, cockpit layouts and umpteen other things Ukrainian pilots may not be able to operate Polish aircraft “out of the box” and I suspect even a minimally short conversion course may well be something the Ukrainian Air Force does not have time for…

That’s I’m sure many would much prefer a NFZ enforced by NATO assets.

DGRossetti · 16/03/2022 14:59

@EsmaCannonball

Yesterday, I think, Russia quit the Council of Europe before it was expelled. This will allow Russia to roll back even further on human rights.
Well, on the plus side that the UK guaranteed to stay in now.

Funny old world.

AgnesWestern · 16/03/2022 15:01

Just saw this on the guardian:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/16/russia-and-ukraine-close-to-agreeing-on-neutral-status-says-sergei-lavrov?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There are so many conflicting stories. I feel like my head is going to explode 🤯

AgnesWestern · 16/03/2022 15:02

Do we think a no fly zone is likely to be granted by the US? I’m getting worried now.

AgnesWestern · 16/03/2022 15:03

Sorry to sound selfish here.

Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 15:03

@AgnesWestern

Do we think a no fly zone is likely to be granted by the US? I’m getting worried now.
No.
MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2022 15:04

@AgnesWestern

Do we think a no fly zone is likely to be granted by the US? I’m getting worried now.
No I don’t think so
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 16/03/2022 15:04

@AgnesWestern

Do we think a no fly zone is likely to be granted by the US? I’m getting worried now.
No.
Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 15:04

There are always conflicting versions of international negotiations. Heck I remember reporters commenting on the number and type of pizzas being delivered during the Brexit negotiations as a sign of what progress had been made!

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2022 15:05

@Igotjelly

There are always conflicting versions of international negotiations. Heck I remember reporters commenting on the number and type of pizzas being delivered during the Brexit negotiations as a sign of what progress had been made!
Ha that is funny
freedles · 16/03/2022 15:13

Really unnerving that the nato Russia deconfliction hotline isn’t working because Russia won’t respond.

MagicFox · 16/03/2022 15:14

@freedles

Really unnerving that the nato Russia deconfliction hotline isn’t working because Russia won’t respond.

Where did you see that?

SunflowerSmith · 16/03/2022 15:17

If these latest peace talks do amount to something and the invasion was stopped, troops back to Russia etc how quickly would things return to relative normality in Russia?
By normality I mean shops reopening and more importantly social media and independent news allowed back, surely once they can access it millions of Russians will be able to see the other side of what is happening, will their media be forever state controlled now.

They won't be able to silence the returning soldiers though who will be telling friends and family what really happened and Russia will also have to explain to thousands of families what happened to their son/husband who has been killed in the invasion.

freedles · 16/03/2022 15:17

CNN

OMGTTC · 16/03/2022 15:22

@freedles I read not long ago that Jake Sullivan (US national security advisor) had spoken to the secretary of Russia’s security council today, so it seems they are still in contact?

DuncinToffee · 16/03/2022 15:24

@AgnesWestern

Do we think a no fly zone is likely to be granted by the US? I’m getting worried now.
No, here is a take on the comment.

Zelenskyy smartly frames a no fly zone as a maximalist demand, then positioning a ramp up of military aid as an alternative "if this is too much." An NFZ won't happen, and Congress actually has the power to do the latter.
twitter.com/zackbeauchamp/status/1504083588618326024?s=21