Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukrainian invasion part 13

999 replies

Alexandra2001 · 15/03/2022 07:40

Seems to be required.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
OMGTTC · 16/03/2022 10:24

Thank you for your responses. I’m really sorry to get in a panic about this when real people are actually suffering in the present, but your replies were really helpful and informative, thank you.

I’ve always had a sort of morbid fascination with it since I was a child, although I was born in ‘93, so haven’t lived through the times of the leaflets/sirens etc.

Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 10:26

@OMGTTC

Thank you for your responses. I’m really sorry to get in a panic about this when real people are actually suffering in the present, but your replies were really helpful and informative, thank you.

I’ve always had a sort of morbid fascination with it since I was a child, although I was born in ‘93, so haven’t lived through the times of the leaflets/sirens etc.

Don’t ever apologise for struggling with your own mental health! Just because your experience might not be as dire as someone else’s doesn’t mean your struggles aren’t real ❤️💐
TheSillyMastiff · 16/03/2022 10:28

I think we are definitely entering cold war 2.0. Heightened nuclear threat which hasn't been hot topic for some 30 years is now back on top.

The war machine will never stop globally, there's too much money to be made from arms dealing and war unfortunately. Conflict and war will ravage parts of the globe for as long as man walks the earth. We are atrocious animals. My son once asked me (he's 7) what the most dangerous animal on earth was and I replied "mankind" because our ability to destroy one another over senseless causes and ravage the eco-system in the name of advancement is never ending. He disagreed and said a shark 😂

But for those panicking remember we've been through this before and all came out the other side without a nuke destination. Battered bruised, and traumatized but without a nuclear winter.

shreddednips · 16/03/2022 10:36

@OMGTTC

Thank you for your responses. I’m really sorry to get in a panic about this when real people are actually suffering in the present, but your replies were really helpful and informative, thank you.

I’ve always had a sort of morbid fascination with it since I was a child, although I was born in ‘93, so haven’t lived through the times of the leaflets/sirens etc.

It's natural to feel concerned about it, because it's the worst thing most of us can imagine. In the UK, we've been fortunate to live through a long period of relatively stable national security, so many of us are confronting the idea of a threat for the first time.

Just in terms of nuclear war, we've been here before, and with SIGNIFICANTLY less restraint shown in terms of nuclear rhetoric by world leaders. Look at Trump and North Korea rattling their sabres at each other, or Nixon trying to intimidate the Soviet Union by giving the impression that he was irrational. Nobody can achieve their aims, whatever they are, in a world that doesn't exist. There's no point in being powerful if there's nothing there to exert power over.

That said, it's important never to be to casual about the potential for nuclear conflict because you never want leaders to get into a mindset where they underplay the impact and think such a war could be 'won'. In a sense, I suppose, the fear of nuclear war keeps us safer from it because it's pretty universally shared.

Ijsbear · 16/03/2022 10:41

@dreamingbohemian bit of a late reply (went to bed) but as BreadInCaptivity said this is the site I pulled the roundup from, well worth following

www.understandingwar.org/user/3100/track

@Hillsmakeyoustrong what level of high level Russian commanders are you talking about?

Putin's track record generally is not one of backing down and if he does he'll try to find anther way to gain his ends. But generally, if he makes a threat he's ready to carry it out and he is willing to escalate.

If (if) he's 'just along for the ride' now and in the hands of the generals, I think that's potentially even more worrying as they seem to be very much hawks. Though probably not as good at media manipulation.

thereisonlyoneofme · 16/03/2022 10:47

There are concerns about the Chernobyl site in the media again, if that fails surely Russia will get the fall out as well ?

Thewindwhispers · 16/03/2022 10:48

@Alexandra2001

I don’t understand why we aren’t threatening to sanction any country which props up Russia

One think that has struck me is the lack of support from the Commonwealth, where is the one voice condemnation?
Sure the Western sphere ones but India is buying Russian oil at a discount.

So much for "we don't need EU, we have the CommonWealth"

It is our traditional allies that have united, indeed gone further.

Agree, the whole situation has been a very clear reminder about who our real allies are.
eglantine7 · 16/03/2022 10:55

Trump threatened to nuke Iran just a few years ago along with Israel. My relatives were terrified and they don't have a nuke to prevent. It is sabre rattling from nutjobs who are somehow. Please don't get anxiety. This is what they want.

eglantine7 · 16/03/2022 11:00
  • somehow in power
Thereisnolight · 16/03/2022 11:04

.

Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 11:08

EU delegation has returned to Poland following their trip to Kyiv. Imagine they’re letting out a collective sigh of relief.

eglantine7 · 16/03/2022 11:08

Qasem Soleimani the Iranian general who drove out ISIS from Iraq and Syria was killed by the US in a missile strike in January 2020. Iran retaliated by firing back rockets into Iraq at US bases. Trump threatened to nuke Iran. We were on the brink them or at least the innocent people of Iran were at risk of mass destruction.
The majority of Iranians are against the government and have to face hardships from crippling Western sanctions.
The threat of bullies using nukes is there and always has been. Please don't think this hasn't happened in recent times. It has and it will continue to as long as nuclear weapons exist.

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 16/03/2022 11:10

@ljsbear I'm interpreting what has been said from broken English. I understand it as being the Russians who lead the attacks on the ground or by sea. They are allegedly pushing for war as much Putin. They will obviously be taking their orders from higher up which ultimately does lead to Putin! But I do wonder whether the nature/intensity of the attacks, say on Mariupol, are led by who is in charge on the ground? Why has it been made such an example of? I know it's a strategic city but it's been absolutely barbaric compared to say how Kherson has been treated so far.

EsmaCannonball · 16/03/2022 11:23

FT reporting that Russia is deliberately destroying or stealing farming equipment in occupied areas. Shades of Holodomor.

lifesabitchandthenyoudie · 16/03/2022 11:29

Just checking in to share that Nazanin is in her way home! I have tears...

Together with the other Brit, according to itv news.

Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 11:34

@lifesabitchandthenyoudie

Just checking in to share that Nazanin is in her way home! I have tears...

Together with the other Brit, according to itv news.

I almost don’t care what was agreed that allowed this. It’s absolutely wonderful news!
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 16/03/2022 11:41

@MarshaBradyo

In On the Beach the air cycles brought that radiation down anyway.
I saw that at the cinema. I think it's the most soul destroying film ever made. Normally at the end of a film people start packing up and leaving as soon as the credits start rolling. Not with that one. Everyone just sat there in erie silence.
eglantine7 · 16/03/2022 11:44

Great news about Nazanine!

Yeahthat · 16/03/2022 11:46

@terrywynne

I think parts of the southern hemisphere would survive though with climactic change and the consequences of increased radiation. I do wonder what it must feel like being in some southern hemisphere countries watching the north dick around with threats of nuclear war, and with climate change, and feel powerless to do anything...

I think pp is right about Pandoras box. I would love to see global nuclear disarmament but there is just no way to force compliance. And even if you did, then a few years down the line a rogue nation could make them again. We invented them and now we have to live with the threatbwe created for ourselves.

We could still continually reduce the amount of nuclear weapons and have a rigid programme of inspections or even embedding inspectors within countries on a multilateral basis. That would reduce the threat overall.
Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 11:48

There is talk of an ‘Austria style’ compromise. Anyone able to explain what that means?

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 16/03/2022 11:50

[quote OMGTTC]@AgnesWestern please don’t be sorry! It’s a really concerning time. FWIW, I feel very similar to you about it all, if that’s any sort of comfort, knowing that we’re worrying together. I feel really selfish for worrying when our concerns here are hypothetical and Ukrainians are having to face real conflict.[/quote]
I'm the same. We have the added bonus of the Swedish authorities telling us not worry, there's currently no increased threat to Sweden, at the same time as sending out details of where the shelters are (none near us) and what war supplies we need to stock up on. My anxiety is off the scale but now I have guilt too for feeling relieved that at least we're not in Ukraine and for worrying so much when my child is happily playing at school rather than cowering in a bunker.

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2022 11:51

Bring I know, it’s so flattening and powerful

I read his book before the film, the author had a career as an aeronautical engineer first and writes precisely but beautifully in an understated way. It still gets to me.

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2022 11:56

We could still continually reduce the amount of nuclear weapons and have a rigid programme of inspections or even embedding inspectors within countries on a multilateral basis.

How could you trust that they weren’t being threatened with death to their family etc if they mentioned that whilst the site was being taken down another was being built elsewhere. If they knew that second part that is. Would anyone trust Putin after this?

EsmaCannonball · 16/03/2022 11:57

Tentatively, the Nazanin news is a good sign in all this. Putin was counting on the relationship between Iran and the West irretrievably collapsing but it may have just given Iran a bit of leverage to force us into a bit of distasteful realpolitik.

With all the talk about Sweden and Finland, isn't it more likely that Putin will foment violence or perhaps even invade the Baltic states? Serbia is very pro-Russian and there have been pro-Russian demos (replete with Z regalia) in the last few days. I thought it was telling that the PMs who visited Kyiv (Polish, Czech, Slovenian) were all from countries that were most recently within the Russian sphere of influence. (I mean, there's also Hungary but, you know, Orban.)

eglantine7 · 16/03/2022 12:00

I agree that Putin needs to save face for his disastrous barbaric war, so negotiating out of this is imperative. What people of Russia are able to do thereafter remains to be seen.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60756993.amp

Swipe left for the next trending thread