Ukrainian invasion part 13

[Alexandra2001]

Seems to be required.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

ukraine is not going to join nato any time soon ukraine may have to completely back down surely

You have not understood any of this conflict or the implications of living under Putin if you think that

Olexander Scherba@olex_scherba
#Kyiv under full-day curfew today, as #Russia is trying to infiltrate the city in small groups posing as civilians in private cars returning to their homes. Groups have #Ukrainian speakers to avert suspicion.

enlighten me @RedToothBrush

Sweden sees NATO membership as a surrender of sovereignty. Sweden wants to decide for itself whether or not it gets drawn into military conflict rather than handing that decision over to someone else. The Ukraine situtation has meant an increase in conversation about NATO membership but it's still not something Sweden wants to do

I used to live there, my friends i keep in touch with say differently, however, thats anecdotal and of course its up to the Swedes/Finns to decide either way.
After the world has witnessed how poor the Russian military is, maybe non Nato countries have no worries and Putin wont be in the Kremlin forever.

Does anyone else feel they could just get on with their life and not obsess about this like other people seem to?
I was at a playgroup yesterday with my 3 year old and nobody spoke about it, obviously I don’t know what they’re thinking, but most were laughing and joking, talking about their plans for Easter etc.

I find it hard to hide my fear at the moment. I’m struggling to find any joy in life because of this heavy weight on my chest. I just keep going over the worst case scenario in my head and all the ins and outs of what would happen.
I feel like I’m just waiting all the time…waiting for bad news, waiting for something bad to happen.

I have contacted my GP this morning for an appointment so I can look into options, maybe medication.

The thing that would really help is all this coming to an end…I feel so selfish but I keep hoping the Ukrainian people will just surrender I know I’m a bad person.

Hope you’re all well this morning anyway and thanks for this thread, it keeps me somewhat grounded and stops me from scrolling through the news constantly.

@Alexandra2001

Sweden sees NATO membership as a surrender of sovereignty. Sweden wants to decide for itself whether or not it gets drawn into military conflict rather than handing that decision over to someone else. The Ukraine situtation has meant an increase in conversation about NATO membership but it's still not something Sweden wants to do

I used to live there, my friends i keep in touch with say differently, however, thats anecdotal and of course its up to the Swedes/Finns to decide either way.
After the world has witnessed how poor the Russian military is, maybe non Nato countries have no worries and Putin wont be in the Kremlin forever.

Good for you, but your friends are wrong. I'm Swedish and actually live in Sweden and the Swedish government announced just the other day that Sweden would NOT be joining NATO.

no wonder @BringBackCoffeeCreams the finnish people on newsnight were not confirming or denying anything.
a discussion is probably needed

@AgnesWestern

Does anyone else feel they could just get on with their life and not obsess about this like other people seem to? I was at a playgroup yesterday with my 3 year old and nobody spoke about it, obviously I don’t know what they’re thinking, but most were laughing and joking, talking about their plans for Easter etc.

I find it hard to hide my fear at the moment. I’m struggling to find any joy in life because of this heavy weight on my chest. I just keep going over the worst case scenario in my head and all the ins and outs of what would happen.
I feel like I’m just waiting all the time…waiting for bad news, waiting for something bad to happen.

I have contacted my GP this morning for an appointment so I can look into options, maybe medication.

The thing that would really help is all this coming to an end…I feel so selfish but I keep hoping the Ukrainian people will just surrender I know I’m a bad person.

Hope you’re all well this morning anyway and thanks for this thread, it keeps me somewhat grounded and stops me from scrolling through the news constantly.

You're not alone @AgnesWestern . I feel the same

@AgnesWestern

Does anyone else feel they could just get on with their life and not obsess about this like other people seem to? I was at a playgroup yesterday with my 3 year old and nobody spoke about it, obviously I don’t know what they’re thinking, but most were laughing and joking, talking about their plans for Easter etc.

I find it hard to hide my fear at the moment. I’m struggling to find any joy in life because of this heavy weight on my chest. I just keep going over the worst case scenario in my head and all the ins and outs of what would happen.
I feel like I’m just waiting all the time…waiting for bad news, waiting for something bad to happen.

I have contacted my GP this morning for an appointment so I can look into options, maybe medication.

The thing that would really help is all this coming to an end…I feel so selfish but I keep hoping the Ukrainian people will just surrender I know I’m a bad person.

Hope you’re all well this morning anyway and thanks for this thread, it keeps me somewhat grounded and stops me from scrolling through the news constantly.

I'm very focused on it, but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed to the point of feeling really anxious. I'm sorry to hear you're feeling so anxious, it sounds like going to your GP is a good first step.

One of the things this situation has really highlighted to me is how woefully underinformed I was about geopolitics. I understand more now, in large part thanks to the really insightful posts on these threads. But it's also important to take a break from it if you feel overwhelmed.

Ukraine surrendering won't make anyone safer I don't think, least of all its own people. It might make us, sitting at a distance, safer in the very short term, but it would just be putting off dealing with a dangerous problem even longer when it should have been taken seriously long ago. I actually think a Putin emboldened by a total victory would be even more destabilising over time.

I’m not sure whether a look back at the history and realizing that many of us have lived through things like the current situation (or perhaps worse) and are still here will help or hinder but just in case:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/16/by-10-i-knew-all-about-the-impact-of-a-nuclear-blast-growing-up-in-the-shadow-of-the-bomb

Just had an interesting conversation with people in Odesa and on the Romanian border. They are essentially saying that whilst Putin is awful, it's actually the army commanders that won't let Putin back down. It sounds as though once the army is in, they do what they like. I asked about russian troops surrendering and that is true but they are a minority and they are young as a rule.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams Sweden has announced they definitely won't be joining? I am surprised that they are saying it so clearly, certainly makes the Finnish decision a lot harder as going a different way from Sweden has never been the plan.

So could this be the reason for the discrepancy between 'positive' peace talks and brutality in places like Mariupol?

[quote notimagain]I’m not sure whether a look back at the history and realizing that many of us have lived through things like the current situation (or perhaps worse) and are still here will help or hinder but just in case:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/16/by-10-i-knew-all-about-the-impact-of-a-nuclear-blast-growing-up-in-the-shadow-of-the-bomb[/quote]
That's one of the things my mother pointed out to me right at the beginning of this conflict, when I was feeling really spooked by all the nuclear sabre rattling.

@shreddednips My Mum also explained the same when I was beside myself.

Thanks for your kind words.

Yes my mum, dad and my in laws said the same to me…
My in laws are 71 so they also remember the Cuban missile crisis. My mum was alive then but only a small child.
Until this point I had never even heard of it.

One thing I’m trying to hold onto is that the world leaders have families too and they won’t want to escalate to a point of this either.
And as awful as Putin is, he also has children and grandchildren.
I also guess we know more about nuclear weapons now and how devastating they are to the planet, so hoping cool heads prevail here.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

Just had an interesting conversation with people in Odesa and on the Romanian border. They are essentially saying that whilst Putin is awful, it's actually the army commanders that won't let Putin back down. It sounds as though once the army is in, they do what they like. I asked about russian troops surrendering and that is true but they are a minority and they are young as a rule.

That's interesting, but how do they know its the army commanders not letting Putin back down?

I think the thing to remember too is that we now have 24hr rolling news coverage which is constantly trying to out-do each other.

@Igotjelly

I think the thing to remember too is that we now have 24hr rolling news coverage which is constantly trying to out-do each other.

Rolling 24 hour news coverage was first a feature of the perstion to liberate Kuwait in 1990

And that led to astonishing levels of the press in Somalia

www.independent.co.uk/news/somalia-media-invasion-goes-in-1562215.html

And isn't it still the case that the most lethal conflict for the press were the those in Europe 1992-2002?

I don't understand why nuclear weapons exist. I understand they're a deterrent but if using strategic nukes means MAD then what's the point? No one wins.

I guess for Putins sake they have worked wonders for him though as he really scared people when he set them to high alert and it's allowed him to get on with what he set out to do.

I keep trying to rationalise myself and thinking surely it won't resort to that for the obvious reasons but I too have moments of utter panic. I think if it wasn't for my 2 year old DD I wouldn't be as worried about this whole situation.

[quote Natsku]@BringBackCoffeeCreams Sweden has announced they definitely won't be joining? I am surprised that they are saying it so clearly, certainly makes the Finnish decision a lot harder as going a different way from Sweden has never been the plan.[/quote]
The PM made a statement on it a few days ago.

sverigesradio.se/artikel/regeringen-vill-inte-att-sverige-gar-med-i-nato-nu

Yes I think you’re right @RancidOldHag (amazing username!) but I suspect it wasn’t quite the same as getting pings to your phone from Sky News, the BBC, daily mail, CNN etc etc every 17 seconds. In terms of being anxiety inducing I’m fairly certain the media have a lot to answer for.

@holliem91

I don't understand why nuclear weapons exist. I understand they're a deterrent but if using strategic nukes means MAD then what's the point? No one wins.

I guess for Putins sake they have worked wonders for him though as he really scared people when he set them to high alert and it's allowed him to get on with what he set out to do.

I keep trying to rationalise myself and thinking surely it won't resort to that for the obvious reasons but I too have moments of utter panic. I think if it wasn't for my 2 year old DD I wouldn't be as worried about this whole situation.

I think unfortunately it’s now a case of it being a technology that can’t be unlearned. Considering Ukraine gave up its own stockpile in return for security guarantees and yet here we are isn’t likely to influence many other countries to follow suit.

Worth remembering that we are in control of how much media we view/log in to/read .

Cheers for the link, so they seem to be saying no for now but some parties want to start the discussion? Are those parties a significant percentage of Parliament?