Ukrainian invasion part 13

[Alexandra2001]

Seems to be required.

Thousands evacuated from Sumy says Red Cross
BBC
More than 100 buses loaded with several thousand civilians have left the besieged Ukrainian city of Sumy in two convoys, the International Committee of the Red Cross has told Reuters.

The city of Sumy is surrounded by Russian troops and has been the target of deadly shelling and air strikes in recent days.

The evacuation is being organised jointly by the ICRC and the Ukrainian Red Cross.

The ICRC said Russia had given a greenlight for the evacuation, but the convoys may not be able to take a direct route to the safe city of Poltava, in central Ukraine.

Just saw Zalensky speaking about visas on the news, he looks so defeated. I think it’s a Russian tactic to humiliate him into thinking peace talks will come to something while they carry on killing his civilians.

Yes of course they do.
History is littered withsurprises usually when someone has been underestimated.

I think it's a dangerous route to go down, declaring that democracy and people in general are weak and corruptible to that degree.

The Putin supporters on here trying to say zelensky is a USA stooge they put in which they wanted.
It's all absolutely nonsensical.

In the dark ages before Mumsnet and twitter, the" people" still had a good sensible measure of what was right and wrong.

@elephantmarchingin

Does anyone else live near military bases?

In the last week there has been a massive increase in troops and activity

Yes, I do. I haven't noticed this. I have been aware of some major exercises (planned) going on, some of which were reported in the press and had people panicking unnecessarily, but I haven't noticed unusual activity

@Papertyger

I also think the use of drones is worrying.

Surely however nets could be dropped to combat drones?
I don't know

Nets/similar fired by small guns have been tried in trials against hobbyist sized drones, sort of thing you can buy in the shops.

It’s thought some of those small drones are being used in this war but against military sized drones nets are bit of a none starter. Some of these things are the size of small cars or even small aircraft and are flying around at highish speed and high altitude.

Best option would simply be to try and shoot then down or at least interfere with the link between the operator and the drone electronically some way them electronically…but it’s not easy.

Feel so uncomfortable about boris jumping out of bed with one regime and into another (Saudi) horrendous Human rights, executed 81 people and at war with Yemen. Feels so hypocritical. It’s hard when we rely on oil aghh but just feels equally as wrong

@ESGdance

Anyone think that Putin WON’T bomb central Kyiv - because he wants to maintain the historic centre for his victory parade - to show to the Russians

I think he'll bomb everything that is needed to destroy the enemy.

Once you decide to apply force, you need to do everything necessary using whatever level of force is required, to achieve your aim. Otherwise, don't attempt to use force, you'll,p lose and at a horrible cost.

I sometimes wonder if younger people think 'shock and awe' and then be able to march in pretty quickly is somehow the only battle plan (because that is what they have seen in some recent conflicts), and do not realise that starting slow with relentless increase is also well established doctrine

@HelpMeHiveMind hmmm maybe it's just ours. We've had massive convoys out and they've closed off the common for 'training purposes'

@Autumnwater

Feel so uncomfortable about boris jumping out of bed with one regime and into another (Saudi) horrendous Human rights, executed 81 people and at war with Yemen. Feels so hypocritical. It’s hard when we rely on oil aghh but just feels equally as wrong

It’s a really tough one isn’t it

Is there another solution?

My point re Brexit was more that as we have now cut ourselves off from our most valuable trading alliance we are now in the position where we have to make trade alliances with countries that may not be on the right side of this conflict. And that our biggest ally will no doubt exert pressure on us to sanction them. And that if we do, we’re in a sticky situation economically.

Do I think Putin meddled in Brexit? Personally I certainly think it was in his best interests. Funny how the two biggest supporters of Brexit - Al ‘Sacha’ Johnson and Nigel Farage - seem to have such close ties to Russia and its money. Funny that.

I appreciate this isn’t a Brexit thread so I won’t go on. Other opinions are available. I was just saying that we are now in a difficult position because of it.

In the dark ages before Mumsnet and twitter, the" people" still had a good sensible measure of what was right and wrong

I have an overwhelming urge to point and shout Witch !

@Autumnwater

Feel so uncomfortable about boris jumping out of bed with one regime and into another (Saudi) horrendous Human rights, executed 81 people and at war with Yemen. Feels so hypocritical. It’s hard when we rely on oil aghh but just feels equally as wrong

But Britain's always been a Saudi ally!

@Alwayscheerful I wondered about that and Putin is ruthless so no surprise but then that would make Zelenskyy very naive saying that the talks have gone pretty well? Or he us being worn down

BAE systems sells Saudi Arabia a lot of arms in return for oil. This is not new at all.

@ HeechulOppa

100% agree. It goes beyond the UK but yes, very much the UK too.

Thank God Biden got in.

[quote elephantmarchingin]@HelpMeHiveMind hmmm maybe it's just ours. We've had massive convoys out and they've closed off the common for 'training purposes' [/quote]
They probably were just training? And they do tend to move around in convoys when moving for exercises etc. Bearing this in mind and the fact there has been a major exercise going on I wouldn't allow it to concern you unduly.

Just been doing my usual search on Twitter to see if anything has come out of the peace talks today and came across the following tweet from Seddon (FT but not sure what role): “ Putin just spoke to the EU's
@CharlesMichel
.

He said "Kyiv is not demonstrating a serious commitment to searching for mutually acceptable solutions," per Kremlin readout.

Not a good sign, for all the positive noise around Russia-Ukraine peace talks.”

I looked at Charles Michel and he didn’t go into specific details of what Putin said. It’s very different on the take that Zolenksyy had earlier today about “pretty good” talks.

I’m exhausted from trying to determine what everything means so god knows how negotiators are holding up. My anxiety is slowly returning after a few days relative calm.

Yes, I think it has to be remembered when negotiations and what concessions Zelenskyy should make are discussed, only one side in all this is talking with a literal gun to its head. Ukraine isn't bombing civilians in St Petersburg, its not snipering civilians in Volgograd or driving tanks into the cars of drivers in Nizhny Novgorod. It's depressing that they should have concede anything and that Putin could get his way only because there were no depths he wouldn't sink to. It will be hard to live with and hard to legitimise.

@EsmaCannonball

Yes, I think it has to be remembered when negotiations and what concessions Zelenskyy should make are discussed, only one side in all this is talking with a literal gun to its head. Ukraine isn't bombing civilians in St Petersburg, its not snipering civilians in Volgograd or driving tanks into the cars of drivers in Nizhny Novgorod. It's depressing that they should have concede anything and that Putin could get his way only because there were no depths he wouldn't sink to. It will be hard to live with and hard to legitimise.

Very true

I’m so sad for them and seeing how much they have fought even before this (and how is 100 worse) is tough

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3031756150408074&id=100007211555008
Anyone think that Zelenskyy looks completely defeated in this video

@dibly

I’ve never seen a message less well aligned to a user name *@Alwayscheerful*.

How Zalensky is holding up with these constant mindfucks I have no idea

I am still hopeful that good will overcome evil and Zelensky will be victorious but I am fearful for Ukraine.

@elephantmarchingin

On sunday I counted 25 military low loaders driving West on the M4.
Also Flight Tracker has shown increased USAF F-15 bomber training runs over Pembrey Beach in Wales. Low fligh approaches down the estuary.

[quote fromdownwest]@elephantmarchingin

On sunday I counted 25 military low loaders driving West on the M4.
Also Flight Tracker has shown increased USAF F-15 bomber training runs over Pembrey Beach in Wales. Low fligh approaches down the estuary.[/quote]
Could be related to this - says they were heading to Wales at the time - www.google.com/amp/s/www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/local-news/gallery/around-15-20-armoured-vehicles-6792763.amp

@YorkshireLondonMiss

Just been doing my usual search on Twitter to see if anything has come out of the peace talks today and came across the following tweet from Seddon (FT but not sure what role): “ Putin just spoke to the EU's *@CharlesMichel* .

He said "Kyiv is not demonstrating a serious commitment to searching for mutually acceptable solutions," per Kremlin readout.

Not a good sign, for all the positive noise around Russia-Ukraine peace talks.”

I looked at Charles Michel and he didn’t go into specific details of what Putin said. It’s very different on the take that Zolenksyy had earlier today about “pretty good” talks.

I’m exhausted from trying to determine what everything means so god knows how negotiators are holding up. My anxiety is slowly returning after a few days relative calm.

There's definitely different noises going on.

The Ukrainian and Russian teams are making soothing noises.

But thats in stark contrast as to whats coming from Macron who has talked to Putin.

Until there is a harmonisation starting to resonnant, I'm hestitate. And other noises don't suggest Putin is thinking in that way either.

What do we think the increase in military movement is about?