Being curious how many of you are thinking to vote Labour in May election just as a revenge to the superiority that carried by Tory?

[Return2thebasic]

I haven't done my research yet, so can't say certainly I'd do it. But they're lots of things we are not happy with the local council. Usually may not warrant a change of vote (probably just not bother to vote). But the whole partygate thing made me almost determined to vote Labour in May.

Tory didn't care what the public feel or think, carrying on to find excuses for their corrupted government. And that guy, that guy who's born as a natural lier, I can't even bear to hear his voice anymore. Something needs to be done, when their party refuse to change or at least show the public their remorse. I feel I need to do something.

How many of you feel the same?

I'll be voting whoever has the best chance of beating the Tories, which in this area is Lib Dem (very strong locally). But that's what I always do - I wouldn't vote Tory in a million years. I would happily vote Labour if they stood a chance here.

I would not risk letting the Tories stay in just because Keir Starmer thinks it's politically risky to say that trans men are not women. Can you image the fuss if he did say that?! Plenty of us are scared to admit to our views on our own social media or at work, let alone as leader of the Opposition.

Thanks.

Plenty of us are scared to admit to our views on our own social media or at work, let alone as leader of the Opposition.

So you're saying Keir Starmer is too scared to say what he thinks? But surely we're entitled to know what a future PM really thinks, not what he's not frightened to say. I expect ministers to bluster a bit because they're scared of being off message. But Keir Starmer sets the nessage, doesn't he? He'll be leading policy decisions. So shouldn't he be capable of being honest over what he's thinking and going to do? Otherwise won't it just be that whoever shouts the loudest will form Labour policy decisions?

@SamphiretheStickerist

I meant to add - Boris had biology, sex and gender separated in his head and did not mangle them in his speech.

He is correct, we do allow gender changes, socially and in law. Upholding that is important and should not be ridiculed. Trans people are deserving of as much dignity and respect as anyone else.

But biology is important, sex cannot be changed.

Absolutely

And I have no idea why thinking that transpeople can change gender but that a human can't change sex gets such vitriol and abuse

I always voted labour. Cannot do so now until they acknowledge sex as a biological fact. Would never vote Tory. No idea how I will vote in the future.

I've tried so hard with Keir Stamrer but after watching him on Sunday morning on Sky, no I can't possibly vote for him. He is so fucking wet it's painful so Tory for me again I'm afraid

I’d just add that if Starmer or any of the other Labour ditherers/trans- apologists suddenly start standing up for women after years of blatant misogyny, I’d be deeply suspicious. In fact, I’d assume that they’d read this thread

So he waffled and refused to say that only women have a cervix. Ok.

@SamphiretheStickerist

I meant to add - Boris had biology, sex and gender separated in his head and did not mangle them in his speech.

He is correct, we do allow gender changes, socially and in law. Upholding that is important and should not be ridiculed. Trans people are deserving of as much dignity and respect as anyone else.

But biology is important, sex cannot be changed.

Yes. Do I think people should be able to dress/present how they want? Well, yes. Do I think that if a man feels more comfortable in a dress and heels, do I think he should wear them? Well, yes (although I'd argue against anyone who said heels are comfortable!) Do I think they should be discriminated against in day to day life (eg employees, housing). No, of course not.

Do I think that if a man puts in a dress, or doesn't even do that, but calls himself a woman, that he is an adult human female and should be treated day such in every area of life? No, I don't.

So more Tory government then. Can’t complain when everything turns to shit.
Amount of middle class virtue signalling on here is ridiculous. So much handwringing about ‘poor’ people but what really matters are a tiny minority of trans folk most of whom are not rapists. Let’s just ignore rising inequality and poverty, abysmal public services and stick with those paragons of virtue Liz truss and Priti Patel

@Jansobieski

So more Tory government then. Can’t complain when everything turns to shit. Amount of middle class virtue signalling on here is ridiculous. So much handwringing about ‘poor’ people but what really matters are a tiny minority of trans folk most of whom are not rapists. Let’s just ignore rising inequality and poverty, abysmal public services and stick with those paragons of virtue Liz truss and Priti Patel

But the Labour Party and their gender ideologist followers don't want my vote. They've made that clear.

Anyone who thinks Tories are the better option for women need to look at how women have been disproportionately affected by the policies of austerity. Tories could not give a shit about women, neither do they care about education, healthcare, or indeed anything that doesn’t fill the coffers of their donors.

So if you’re thinking they’re doing a better job just because some people find themselves in the bloody heartrending position of being transgender then it’s plainly ridiculous.

@bozzabollix

Anyone who thinks Tories are the better option for women need to look at how women have been disproportionately affected by the policies of austerity. Tories could not give a shit about women, neither do they care about education, healthcare, or indeed anything that doesn’t fill the coffers of their donors.

So if you’re thinking they’re doing a better job just because some people find themselves in the bloody heartrending position of being transgender then it’s plainly ridiculous.

Exactly.

@bozzabollix

Anyone who thinks Tories are the better option for women need to look at how women have been disproportionately affected by the policies of austerity. Tories could not give a shit about women, neither do they care about education, healthcare, or indeed anything that doesn’t fill the coffers of their donors.

So if you’re thinking they’re doing a better job just because some people find themselves in the bloody heartrending position of being transgender then it’s plainly ridiculous.

Ridiculous doesn’t work when it comes to voting and what many women find important.

@bozzabollix

Anyone who thinks Tories are the better option for women need to look at how women have been disproportionately affected by the policies of austerity. Tories could not give a shit about women, neither do they care about education, healthcare, or indeed anything that doesn’t fill the coffers of their donors.

So if you’re thinking they’re doing a better job just because some people find themselves in the bloody heartrending position of being transgender then it’s plainly ridiculous.

It's really difficult, isn't it?

My initial intention was to give labour a landslide victory in local elections as a protest to show Tory they shouldn't think they could shit on top of us while thinking they could get away from it without any consequence. So they'd ride BJ and change their leadership. Then for the next election, it depends on what new leadership is like and how things evolve. That was my initial thoughts when I posted this.

Well...Wrong timing, absolutely hit the wall. As when it comes to this topic about "what is woman", I'm absolutely appalled by the blinded arbitration on if you want to protect a minority group of people, you would have rip off the basic right/protection from another vulnerable group of people. Just not making sense at all.

So I'm not quite sure what I'd do, honestly. Labour is hopeless as how it is now. But I'm really reluctant to let BJ and his pals think they can do whatever and they are above everyone else.

I vote differently for different elections. Local Labour are inept and corrupt and forget half the city withdrawing all local funds for many of the suburbs. The local Conservatives do manage to make things happen and do serve the whole city. There's only one ward where LDs are worth a vote.

I've often had multiple elections on the same day and cast my votes for different parties according to who stands for what on each scale.

@TooBigForMyBoots

So he waffled and refused to say that only women have a cervix. Ok.

Yeah. If you only read that one line... Do we have to keep banging on about context?

He did not conflate sex and gender and, unlike Starmer, made no stupid comment about the word woman including any man who wants to use it.

@ChiefInspectorParker

I would not risk letting the Tories stay in just because Keir Starmer thinks it's politically risky to say that trans men are not women. Can you image the fuss if he did say that?!

You’re voting for a party whose leader is too afraid of a fuss to say what a woman is and you think other women should do likewise?

No thanks

This.

I have been a natural labour voter - always- but now feel my vote has no home.

I can't vote for people who cannot recognise me (or any other woman). Being female makes me inaudible and invisible in many situations already. (Trans-men are in this situation too.)

How could the Labour party start to meet the needs or defend the rights of women if they do not know what a woman is?

@Clymene I haven't misunderstood at all. Plenty of people here are using the
'woman thing' to dismiss Labour out of hand. Plenty are saying they'll vote Tory because of it. Nobody has told me what the Tories or Lib Dems are saying about the issue, other than a bit of Boris non-speak.

Should my trans son still be going into the women's changing rooms?

The whole issue could be so easily fixed with individual, unisex toilets and changing cubicles.

[quote RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]@Clymene I haven't misunderstood at all. Plenty of people here are using the
'woman thing' to dismiss Labour out of hand. Plenty are saying they'll vote Tory because of it. Nobody has told me what the Tories or Lib Dems are saying about the issue, other than a bit of Boris non-speak.

Should my trans son still be going into the women's changing rooms?

The whole issue could be so easily fixed with individual, unisex toilets and changing cubicles.[/quote]
It's bigger than changing room, isn't it?

I'm sorry, your son might be a very innocent case trapped in this discussion. But there are previous posters might be forced to accept self identified woman carer at home when they are in a vulnerable position. There are self identified "female" offenders locked up with women inmates. How do you solve those risk factors by providing unisex facilities?

I know two transsexuals, and I think the large reaction to the transgender politics in Mumsnet are an overreaction. In both cases it’s been an incredibly hard journey, with worries over acceptance and huge changes to relationships. It isn’t so they can go into a changing room and see a Fanny or two. To think that completely misunderstands the absolute hell that people go through on that journey. I’m not saying there’s never been a man who’s decided to go that route as a path to being deviant, but with rape convictions being so woeful why would any man bother? Rape a woman whilst not masquerading as a transsexual and you’ve only got 2% chance of being convicted.

I’ve been on Mumsnet a while and the overriding position on transexuals just baffles me, it really does.

Meanwhile it’s used as an excuse to continue to let one political party take a wrecking ball to ordinary peoples lives in this country. In the same way racism was used to get Brexit through, transphobia is allowing the Tories free reign. And Mumsnet is pretty transphobic.

I may actually get around to voting Tory for the first time in my voting life after spoiling my paper for years. Striking at the core of my existence, my biological sex, and saying my reality doesn't matter means I will not vote for any party that supports self ID. All my issues in life come from my sex being female, from health to experiences. I've always been financially better off under the Tories, and I'm done voting Left to make life better for people who then vote for the Tories anyway and tell me they know what they are doing. Okay, chaps. You rock on, I'll sit pretty on my privilege.