2: Ukraine and Russia: Answering common questions and issues (PART 2)

[WhatsGoingOn2022]

Hi all,
we are not quite at the end of our current thread but getting there quickly, so going to get this set up in anticipation. Really thrilled that we have so many people still involved!

It is the continuation of this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4497259-Ukraine-and-Russia-Answering-common-questions-and-issues

The aim of the thread is to keep discussion on an informed and detailed footing, avoiding wild speculation and whataboutery which only derail the conversation. Basically, if you can't broadly agree on the following points, this is not the thread for you:

1: states shouldn’t invade democratic states or get a veto over who their government is. Self determinism is important

2: Putin has no right to dictate how millions of people outside of Russia live their lives, or that they should live under repressive regimes

3: Russia has nukes, so does the west, nobody is therefore able to wholesale dictate to the other

4: we are talking here about the Ukraine situation. I don’t come onto threads about e.g. what the US does in Yemen and spew whatabout e.g. Russia in Syria. If you don’t think the people of Ukraine deserve a discussion about THEM then don’t discuss it.

If you don't know much about the topic: do feel free to get involved. But ask specific questions or for critiques of specific sources, please don't just post ill-informed opinion for the sake of it.

When I get a chance I'll put in some links to the common questions again. We have already gone through issues like NATO expansion, role of China in detail, so please do check the prior thread out.

Thanks!

Pm

Putin's latest speech/ rant is astonishing sign of weakness.
I'm wondering where Roman is. he never initially fled to Moscow did he. The speech had a very personal edge to it, I wouldn't be surprised if that particular Oyster eater is in peril and Putin is putting out the warning to other . with Roman background I can't imagine he would support Putin at all.
Strange conundrum.
I had vaguely hoped Roman would be perhaps trying to organise a coup.

@Papertyger

Putin's latest speech/ rant is astonishing sign of weakness. I'm wondering where Roman is. he never initially fled to Moscow did he. The speech had a very personal edge to it, I wouldn't be surprised if that particular Oyster eater is in peril and Putin is putting out the warning to other . with Roman background I can't imagine he would support Putin at all. Strange conundrum. I had vaguely hoped Roman would be perhaps trying to organise a coup.

I am sure I read RA is in Israel.

Do you think China has enough of a distraction with Covid and Covid in Hong Kong causing havoc, for this to have any impact on their stance vis a vis Russia?
Could the USA use mRNA vaccine technology as a carrot in any sort of way?

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Thank you to @Aristalese @WhatsGoingOn2022 @1dayatatime and all of the other regular posters here.
I hope you are all doing ok.
I have finally got to the end of the threads and I just wanted to say thank you so much for taking the time to answer everything and provide all of your insight.
The world is a scary place at the moment but I've found myself not reading the news but coming here instead as your information is much more digestible and easy to understand. Thank you for all the links to sources of information too.
Also thank you to the posters who offered an alternative point of view. It was good to see the interaction, especially as it was mostly respectful and polite!
Take care everyone. I really hope this thread continues

What’s the point of the UN? With Russia and China as members who have a veto nothing can be done to prevent the genocides they are both carrying out right? But what would happen if it was another country?

How does the guilty of war crimes finding affect putin and Russia.. he’s been asked nicely to withdraw and stop commenting fear crimes but what power does anyone have? What happens when he ignores that request?

Murmers of Danish peace keeping troops, Poland apparently wants a peace keep mission to go in.
How or When who knows but this is rumoured.

Re UN it's dissolved that nothing was written into the legislation that if country's did this i'e Putin under a dictator that other un members agree is an unwarranted act of aggression on sovereign work then their vote and presence should be null SBD voided

Dissolved/ diassapointing

Onceuponatime I agree about the UN - they seem to be a toothless organisation which costs a fortune to run.
Re Putin and war crimes - plenty of dictators died in harness , for example Stalin, Franco, Fidel Castro and so on, so unless there’s a successful uprising in Russia or a very brave assassin, I don’t know what can be done to remove Putin.

@WhatsGoingOn2022 and @Aristalese

I'm another lurker but I've found your posts on both threads so helpful for helping me understand some things; I now limit myself to a bit of BBC news and commentary but I come back to the thread you started ( I'm still ploughing through the first thread though, there are many potential worm holes to go down and I have to really grapple with some of the stuff in the links)

A poster on a different thread regarding the invasion mooted this idea that some in Putin's inner circle are keeping the gravity of the situation for Russia from him (that's if I understood what I read there).

What's your current take on that? How would that play out, if this is true?

Hello all, thank you for the kind posts, it's lovely to read that you found the commentary helpful (although I hesitate to use the word lovely on this thread, you know what I mean). Tried my best to give a bit more insight.

And unfortunately my biggest concerns about Mariupol are proving true. There are also reports across British and foreign media of Ukrainians being taken out of Ukraine and removed to Russia to forcibly work in Siberia, which is the same tactic as used by the Soviets decades ago. Everything I've predicted is coming true and believe me, I am not saying this with any satisfaction at all, but rather with utmost dread for the fate of these people.

There's an interesting thread on Twitter by Kasparov (yes, that Kasparov) if anyone is interested, Sky News reported more on it.

I am sorry I've taken a step back recently, I am heavily involved in helping the refugees both here and back home and juggling this alongside my day to day life and various other issues. I'm not sure how @WhatsGoingOn2022 is doing, I hope she's ok. I will try to pop in when I can

Just quickly in response to @PollyGray's question, personally I don't believe VP isn't aware of the current situation. I think on the contrary, he may have been lied to before the invasion by his own inner circle, but I doubt this continues. My view is that he has put a lot of pressure on them to present the reality of the situation, try to minimise the effects for Russia and most likely to try to ramp up the efforts in terms of propaganda, silencing his own nation etc. There are clear signs of a concerted effort in that regard which again, are to be expected, and this could only happen with his knowledge and direct involvement.

I hope you are ok @WhatsGoingOn2022 and @Aristalese I have read both threads and found them so informative and helpful, so thank you.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to feel like this, but if you're able to continue it would so very much appreciated, but only if it is peaceful to you

@IckyPop

I hope you are ok *@WhatsGoingOn2022 and @Aristalese* I have read both threads and found them so informative and helpful, so thank you.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to feel like this, but if you're able to continue it would so very much appreciated, but only if it is peaceful to you

I agree with IckyPop, I’ve found this thread so helpful in understanding the war in Ukraine. I know things are pretty much the same as they when the OP last posted but would love to here her views on the latest in Ukraine.

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