Pronouns- here to stay??

[StuffLikeThat]

Can I get people's thoughts on whether the act of stating your "personal pronouns" (after your name on LinkedIn or in your email signature etc) is here to stay? Is it just a fad or will this stick and just be a thing for ever more?

@FrenchApple

I mean imagine if they brought that in now as a thing. All women must declare their marital status on emails, if they don't want to they must use Ms. Men don't need to do this and can keep their relationship status a secret. There would be outrage, yet so many women carry along with it.

I would rebel against it as I do pronouns. My status is utterly unimportant to anyone who emails me, if I'm asked my name in public I say my first name not Ms dactyl. And when I am not there I give zero shits how anyone refers to me.

Just for info my email signature reads
My pronouns are sex based like my oppression

No one has told me to remove it and I wouldnt anyway, it's a hill I will die on, so would be status if it was forced.

Gender ideology just reinforces stereotypes and I refuse to buy into it. What is a woman if not an adult female? There is no one thing that I have in common with all other women on earth except my biology. Women can be tall, short, hairy, bald, like ballet, like football, be quiet, loud, wear makeup, wear an old bin bag. The only thing that unites us biology and you can't self-identity into that group.

^100%

And I like your style Terfy

Timeisnotaline I was attempting to point out that all this woke stuff about pronouns seems rather self indulgent when there is war once again in Europe, and it might spread. If Putin attacks NATO Allies, then what your pronouns are will be the least of anyone's worries.

Gender ideology just reinforces stereotypes and I refuse to buy into it.

Absolutely

This thread prompted me to watch the 5 episode series on Julia Grant on IPlayer.
Probably the most interesting insight into gender I have ever seen.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04frg16/a-change-of-sex-1-george-the-big-decision

@Barrawarra

I think it will be a fad if enough of us who disagree with it don’t do it.

I agree - hopefully. I don't put mine, despite it being in my employer's email signature template, and up to now I haven't been challenged about it. We will see.

@PatterPaws

Gender ideology just reinforces stereotypes and I refuse to buy into it.

Absolutely

Yes agreed. The idea that you have to be a woman if you wear make-up and a dress, is stereotyping to the nth degree!

Just for info my email signature reads My pronouns are sex based like my oppression

Brilliant. Not sure I have the nerve to put that, but well done to you!

I have zero issue with my pronouns being on show anywhere there's the opportunity. It doesn't make me less of a woman because someone else is non binary. And as for the people who think oh well it's because people will treat you differently as a woman-do you know many men called Laura? I should probably change my name and remove my breasts if I was so concerned about people knowing I'm female

I think it's here to stay. I refuse to take part, but my workplace encourages it on emails, on our name badges, even on our Yammer social network. There is a strong lobby within the organisation that pushes it. Day to day, in frontline operations where I work, no-one gives a shit about pronouns but in the corporate and upper operational roles, it's quite popular.

She and he refer to a person's biological sex. This is determined at conception by the chromosomes and is fixed for life. No surgery, clothing, hormone treatment or makeup alters the XY or XX chromosomes, and in any case most transwomen do not have surgery and still have their complete male anatomy.

'Preferred pronouns' which pretend someone isn't their own sex are nonsense.

I don’t use performative pronouns and won’t use them in any capacity.

Interestingly my DS (in his 20s) and his work colleagues (20s and 30s) think they’re wanky and don’t either.

So I can quite see them going the way of mohicans, pogoing and leopard print bum-flaps - there will eventually be the odd residual adherent but on the whole they’ll just fall out of vogue.

Trans is a protected characteristic, non-binary rightly isn't so why are we spending so much time on it? It's a middle-class status display imo. It wouldn't work in a supermarket. 'Just go and speak to they/them' in the tinned goods department' when there's a couple of female and male floor staff walking round would lead to a lot of customer annoyance, no doubt especially from the they/them sector.

In all honesty, I've come across a pronoun badge wearer once in a museum cafe and I put a complaint in the feedback box due to its discriminatory nature against people with learning disabilities or dementia. I wouldn't normally notice things like that though so who knows how many pronoun-bearers I've disappointed in my rare trips to middle-class enclaves? 🤣

Not forgetting of course we have instances where non-binary men feel entitled to override the most basic safeguarding procedures to use women's or even girls' spaces, like that camp in America.

I actually don't see what people get out of forcing those around them to use pronouns that don't align to their visible sex.

Sure, you can socially coerce people to call you 'they' or a pronoun that's opposite to your sex. But no-one actually SEES you as that sex or as sexless. Everyone sees you as the sex you are and that effects how they interact with you. If you don't want people to treat you a certain way because of your sex, become a proper feminist and fight for that social change. You won't achieve it through pronoun change.

If you genuinely want someone to regard you as the sex you are not, you have to make serious effort to transition so that others peoples eyes and brains perceive you as that opposite sex. Most people who identify as non-binary won't really be able to present as an indeterminate sex, and so will be perceived as male and female and treated accordingly.

Thousands, or millions, of years of evolution have hardwired us to spot males and females of our species on sight. A bit of recent social coercion cannot overcome that. All the pronoun people are doing are coercing people to lie to them about how they see them. I genuinely don't see why they want people to do that.

It's a fad. We have the luxury of living in a reasonably safe and stable environment compared to much of the rest of the world so some people become very self centred and obsessed with just themselves and indulge in their every whim. My guess is they most of the people banging on about non binary in their teens and early twenties would have dropped it all together or moved on to another cause in ten years time.

I actually don't see what people get out of forcing those around them to use pronouns that don't align to their visible sex.

Sure, you can socially coerce people to call you 'they' or a pronoun that's opposite to your sex. But no-one actually SEES you as that sex or as sexless. Everyone sees you as the sex you are and that effects how they interact with you. If you don't want people to treat you a certain way because of your sex, become a proper feminist and fight for that social change. You won't achieve it through pronoun change.

Lastoneintown I totally agree with you. I think some pro-pronoun people are so close (but not quite) feminist in their drive for equality. Maybe in time they’ll slightly shift in their views and want to seek change for everyone not just the individual.

Then there’s another whole male group who are riding on the coattails of all
this purely because it gives them unprecedented easy access to women and girls in vulnerable situations.

Yes, it’s good practice for any purveyors of an ideology to glance backwards to see who’s riding on their coattails, definitely.

@Insidelaurashead

I have zero issue with my pronouns being on show anywhere there's the opportunity. It doesn't make me less of a woman because someone else is non binary. And as for the people who think oh well it's because people will treat you differently as a woman-do you know many men called Laura? I should probably change my name and remove my breasts if I was so concerned about people knowing I'm female

Ironically, that's what a lot of young women are doing, as part of this same ideology.

Ironically, that's what a lot of young women are doing, as part of this same ideology

This ideology is not harmless. A lot of harm is caused in the world by people who think they are being 'nice' and 'kind'. Unfortunately, doing good requires hard thought, research and work, otherwise you end up inadvertently causing or supporting harm.

@ThreeRingCircus

Exactly this. Gender ideology just reinforces stereotypes and I refuse to buy into it. What is a woman if not an adult female? There is no one thing that I have in common with all other women on earth except my biology. Women can be tall, short, hairy, bald, like ballet, like football, be quiet, loud, wear makeup, wear an old bin bag. The only thing that unites us biology and you can't self-identity into that group.

I’d like this on a poster.

@StuffLikeThat

That's what I thought originally but scrolling through LinkedIn this evening and im dismayed at the number of people (mostly women) who do it.

I've found LinkedIn to be the biggest load of woke bollocks that I've seen in a while.

@Cherryblossoms85

I think my favourite is when people put she/her/hers. Are they trying to show they know grammar?

If I'm ever forced to do this I'm going to put:

There/Their/They're.

Fuck this bullshit.

@Bagelsandbrie

I’m not sure.

Dd aged 19 who is at university told me her and her friends now call everyone “they / them” initially when they meet someone new as they don’t want to offend them and they wait to be corrected.

How do they feel about offending women that are she/her?

🤔

I find being referred to as they/them offensive.

*If I'm ever forced to do this I'm going to put:

There/Their/They're.*

Absolutely love this 🤣

When I first started seeing this I automatically thought it was an indicator that they are transgender, but now I feel that people add pronouns to ensure that they are not mistaken for the opposite sex- so not necessarily a virtue thing anymore, just masked as one.