Ukraine Invasion Part 12

[MagicFox]

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

Lukashenko will be doing his utmost to keep out of the war while being leaned on heavily by Putin to join in.

Belarus' army are mostly ill trained conscripts with OLD Soviet equipment. If you think Russia's army is having a bad time it's nothing compared to how Belarus would fare.

Not to say that it wouldn't cause a huge headache for Ukraine, opening up a new front and dividing their forces further.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams why are they advising bunkers? Because they fear. Nuclear attack in your country or…?

@ParsleySageRosemary do we think conscription is likely?

I agree about the BBC and my teenager was just highlighting their hypocrisy, headline at the moment is about if the US get involved it will be WW3, no shit sherlock and you already reported that at least a couple of days and you read the detail below, US have reiterated how they won't get involved! It's hypocritical as they are always providing helplines for issues such as mental health at the end of dramas or programmes with relatable content.

Just catching up and I saw on thread 11 where someone posted a link from the Metro about someone being executed by the Ukrainians. In fact they tried to arrest him and he opened fire on the government officials and was shot he was not executed.

@Goldenbear

I agree about the BBC and my teenager was just highlighting their hypocrisy, headline at the moment is about if the US get involved it will be WW3, no shit sherlock and you already reported that at least a couple of days and you read the detail below, US have reiterated how they won't get involved! It's hypocritical as they are always providing helplines for issues such as mental health at the end of dramas or programmes with relatable content.

Do you think the BBC should have a helpline for people who are affected by this?

Or tone down their headlines so as not to make people too anxious?

'The Metro', typical irresponsible journalism!

Thanks.

There are always some good videos here when you need to take a break from MN.

www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/new/

Biden said - according to the BBC - "I want to be clear: We will defend every inch of Nato territory with the full might of a united and galvanized Nato. But we will not fight a war against Russia in Ukraine. A direct confrontation between Nato [NB he does not say USA] and Russia is World War III"
(My bold)

All the reposts about the FSB arrests appear to be unconfirmed, so we'll have to wait and see. It could be true, or it could be PsyOps from our side, with aim of furthering the idea that it's all going wrong

Putin, of course, began his career in the KGB (forerunner of the FSB)

I don't think they should have a helpline, I think they should be more accurate with their headlines and think about their responsibility as editors. The headlines are not representative of the content, that isn't good journalism.

The BBC is reporting Biden’s comments. You could ask him why the mention of WW3: presumably some domestic pressure? I thought all were trying to contain the war where it is on the east end of the Eastern Europe. Re conscription, I hope not.

@BeyondPurpleTulips

Biden said - according to the BBC - "I want to be clear: We will defend every inch of Nato territory with the full might of a united and galvanized Nato. But we will not fight a war against Russia in Ukraine. A direct confrontation between Nato [NB he does not say USA] and Russia is World War III" (My bold)

It's the wordier version of "don't dream dreams" - David Owen, when EU Peace Negotiator in former Yugoslavia, to the Bosnians about prospects of Western intervention, when their capital was besieged and who were battling genocide

Also a clear message that US isn't going to act alone. UN is stymied, NATO will only act if there is further aggression against a member state that triggers Article 5

It’s not the case of needing to tone down the headlines they just need to report it in a more nuanced way, giving more information and background. I usually listen to radio4 and they are very good at explaining the background and I find that helps calm some anxiety. The last thing we need is to stir up nationalism, populism and hate against another country. The reporters on the ground are fantastic though.

@shreddednips

I'm taking the daily mail article with a bit of a pinch of salt, but if it's true that they were embezzling money intended to fund intelligence then it makes you wonder what else just hasn't been done/looked after properly if people are pocketing the money.

It is a well known risk of corruption that you end up with substandard institutions and products and services because government funds are embezzled and contracts handed out to inferior contractors who have won their bids through corrupt means (kickbacks, bribery, nepotism, etc.) at the expense of competition. People are hired not based on competence but connections or ability to extort more bribes. Resources are diverted from their most beneficial use.

That is not a surprising byproduct of a kleptocracy like Russia. Looks like Putin engineered a vast system of patronage which ripped off the Russian people and ultimately cost him an efficient army which he has spent the best part of a decade modernising at huge cost. He cannot even fight a half-cocked war at his door step without resorting to easy targets like the poor Ukrainian civilians and cause an almighty humanitarian disaster.

@Goldenbear I agree. The headline doesn’t reflect the content, for example the risks from Chernobyl and the maternity hospital. If you’d seen the headline you would have expected hundreds of dead newborns, that type of reporting is very distressing for readers. But that is not to say Russia are right in their actions either.

No one is talking about it in my workplace and my husband refuses to watch the news, I’ve been following the news closely but I’ve now had to have a break from it, at least for a couple of days, the enormity of the horror and suffering of the people of Ukraine, plus the animal suffering is just unbearable and feeling so utterly powerless to do anything about it compounded by the deep rage that one man can do this to the world, I have never felt such visceral hatred towards one man before. Having no one to talk to about it makes it worse, my only outlet is on here, it’s not that people at work or my DH don’t care, i just think they want to bury their heads in the sand as the enormity of it is too much.

Lukashenko knows that his position is tied up with Putin's. If Putin meets his downfall and Russia reforms then Lukashenko is likely to fall too. He also has a vested interest in Ukraine's failure. Like Putin, he can't risk having an example of a country that threw out Russian puppet politicians and began to transform into a progressive western democracy on his doorstep.

I was going to ban myself from anymore news input yesterday, including from this thread which actually has been very measured and informative but then Newsnight came on and my ban was lifted. However, I found i agreed with a Tory (rare) Isle of Wight MP, he was intelligent and considered, we need that level of balance not reactionary words and edits.

Russian snipers have been killing civilians attempting to escape cities or going out in search of food. I know it's unlikely, but I hope when all this is over it isn't just Putin who ends up on trial. Nothing excuses targeting civilians.

Having no one to talk to about it makes it worse, my only outlet is on here, it’s not that people at work or my DH don’t care, i just think they want to bury their heads in the sand as the enormity of it is too much

This. Thank you to mumsnet for giving me an outlet.

Can relate to this as well. My DH is a pragmatist and calm, obviously thinks it is awful and harrowing but he doesn't think of all the trajectories like I do. One of my friends just said she thinks some peope cope better than others in these kind of situations. I.e they don't throw themselves in to the depths of despair as it is not helpful so yes I do feel a bit like the odd one out.

[quote AgnesWestern]@ParsleySageRosemary do we think conscription is likely?[/quote]
No, not at all.

For a variety of reasons, not least that most members of the military won't have any desire to go to war next to a bunch of inexperienced people who don't want to be there. If conscription is brought in, which I don't for a second think it will be, our problems are much, much bigger than conscription itself.

I've been finding Ukrainecast on BBC sounds really helpful. They talk about what the latest stories are, but they make it very clear when information hasn't been verified, or why the two sides would present things in different ways.

Just also to say to those who are struggling with the news at the moment, it's been a massive boost to my MH to only listen to the news on the radio instead of watching it on tv. I can listen whilst doing the washing up, laundry, cooking etc. there are no distressing images, plus I tend to find that on the radio people seem calmer and go into more detail. Colin Murray's late night show during the week is a good mix of news, interviews, and then some just generally nice things. It helps keep the sense of impending doom away.

Just catching up. With regards to whether this is worse than the cold war, I think it's different.
I was born just after the Cuban crisis, so grew up with the what felt like a very real threat of nuclear war in the late 70's/80's.

We were shown Protect and Survive films which gave instructions on what to do in the case of a nuclear attack (available on YouTube) quite often and as a child I was utterly terrified.

Now we live in a smaller world and have a lot more news and information to digest. There were no military experts at our fingertips then, just newspapers and the BBC and ITV news.