How are you explaining to your boys about only men being conscripted in Ukraine?

[MiniDaffodils]

I have both girls and boys. We have always brought them up to understand that whilst boys may be physically stronger, girls can undertake the same roles in anything as boys can.
My boys are upset at the thought that only men are being made to fight in Ukraine and not women. They think it’s very unfair.
I think they are imagining themselves in that same situation. Obviously I have explained in this country both men and women would be called up to fight. My boys are gentle souls and the thought of only men having to kill others is disturbing them.
My girls are relieved at the idea that women in Ukraine are not called to fight despite usually them being very vocal about the fact boys and girls are equal in all things.
My main question is how to explain this to my sons, rather than my daughters (who don’t seem as bothered by the issue).
Thanks

Men and women are not interchangeable. Women are not as strong as men, they generally do more childcare and their bodies make and then breastfeed babies and small children. Women are likely to be raped as a weapon of war, they are also vulnerable to trafficking ,as we are seeing with women and children fleeing Ukraine.
Telling your children that men and women are treated the same way by society, or even that they are the same, is ridiculous. Biology says something rather different. Men are bigger, faster, stronger. A woman can take on a man as an equal at work, if she had been given equal opportunities, but not in the Olympics.

Despite not being conscripted women and girls suffer disproportionately more than men in war. Maybe that will cheer your sons up? www.un.org/press/en/2003/sc7908.doc.htm

I had this conversation with my son yesterday morning in fact.

I said that as much as we wished things were equal, the fact of the matter is that right now, pretty much everywhere, women do the bulk of child care, and caring for elderly relatives (and to just look at our family, where despite me and ex both having full time jobs, I've always been the one looking after him and his brother).

I pointed out that plenty of women who didn't have caring responsibilities were staying to fight, and that most of the women leaving, were doing so with children - and that that was also a very brave and dangerous thing to be doing.

And that's before we got onto the practicalities of whether what available equipment would even be useable by women who are generally smaller.

And not mentioning at all, as he's too young, that in wartime, women and children will be raped - that this will absolutely happen.

Because biology exists and it matters.
No periods shouldn’t hold us back, rape shouldn’t happen. Military kit should fit women’s bodies and women should be as strong as men. But this isn’t reality. Rape happens, periods do hold some women back, men are stronger than women, men don’t take on caring responsibilities as much as women, pretty much everything we use is designed to fit men’s bodies. Many women in Ukraine are staying to fight anyway.

You make it sound like those fleeing are safe. They’re not. People traffickers were trying to take women and children away from the Polish border FFS.

There would be absolute uproar if young women were to be conscripted alongside with young men in this country, its ok for young boys to be blown up or shot to bits but not young women, and as a mother of two sons this is exactly why l cannot take seriously any of the so called feminist posts on here, at the end of the day equality means equality., not picking and choosing the best bits and making lame excuses about the rest.

[quote girlmom21]@AngelinaFibres this is it exactly. And considering we're talking about Joe Public - your average man has much more natural physical strength.

It's mad isn't it. You don't notice the difference until a situation like yours! [/quote]
My sons don't do any weight lifting types activities. One of them has a camper van and decided to change the wheels for chunkier ones. The original wheels ( complete thing, not just tyres) needed to be put away until they were sold. He picked up a wheel in each arm and walked off. Gosh ,I thought, those arent as heavy as I would have thought. I tried to pick one up. I couldn't move it.

Even 80 years ago in ww2 we conscripted men and women. Everyone between 18-45 (I think) had to join either the navy, Air force or army, apart from women with very young children. The only difference was the roles they played. And there were some men who did support roles too - whether because they were conscientious objectors, had protected jobs (e.g. doctors or mine workers), were medically unfit, etc.
So no reason why we wouldn't do the same now- everyone would be expected to join up but it would make more sense for people to work in roles they are suited to.

The trade off for the sticky end of the shitty stick women have, being raped beaten and men? Plus by and large it's men who have caused the troubles in the first place? Women by nature aren't really violent? Men are stronger so it's only fair? 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP maybe also mention the amount of women who are told there'll be a ceasefire to allow them to leave who are then either being killed when they try or who are stuck in hiding with strangers, young children and no supplies.

If your boys would rather do that that's fine but I think it'd be easier to kill a man who's trying to kill your spouse than it would be to have to risk your childrens lives to spend days trying to get a somewhere where you know nobody and have nothing and could see them bombed at any second, mentally.

*raped beaten and murdered by men.

The short version of what most posts are saying would be "real life isn't a fucking marvel film". When women fight against men, they die. They don't do black widow style flips and knock out 6 guys in 30 seconds.

Conscription isn't for filling skilled roles which don't rely much on physical strength. It's for (I'm sorry) cannon fodder. Most women are not as strong or as fast as most men. Even something basic like firing an assault rifle - there's a really significant recoil from that which average male upper body strength will cope better with than average female upper body strength. So the average man who has never fired a gun will be more accurate and waste less ammunition than the average woman who has never fired a gun. Additionally, the Ukrainian situation already involves guerilla fighting and urban combat and that is going to create hand to hand fighting. A man can slam the butt of a gun into the face of an enemy with sufficient force to incapacitate or kill. A woman quite likely cannot.

Women should absolutely be able to serve in the armed forces if they want to and if they can meet the requirements of the role. But mass subscription of women with no military training or experience to front line roles would be inefficient for a country in Ukraine's position who are having to scramble to respond to an invasion.

Absolutely nothing to do with not being equal - we have very different, vitally as valuable roles in life and war. Everybody suffers. SOME women who feel that they want to fight, stay and do, and always have done from the beginning of time.

Thinking that men and women both being conscripted in times or war is somehow some fantastic show of 'equality' is upside down. I actually can't find the words.

I think it's a bit sad that your boys don't have any feelings of protectiveness towards their sisters and would be happy for them to get conscripted along side themselves. It's a strange lesson to be teaching them.

@Moonface123

There would be absolute uproar if young women were to be conscripted alongside with young men in this country, its ok for young boys to be blown up or shot to bits but not young women, and as a mother of two sons this is exactly why l cannot take seriously any of the so called feminist posts on here, at the end of the day equality means equality., not picking and choosing the best bits and making lame excuses about the rest.

Are you aware that feminism is tackling sex based inequalities?

Would your 2 sons rather give birth in a box shelter?

bomb

Well in practice terms if we were called up to fight and it was a choice between me and dp going to war, dp would be a lot more use than me as he is far stronger and fitter than me, and he would struggle to look after our children by himself because I do everything in here including working full time. I could still do my job while looking after our children and taking care of the house (I do that at the moment) he wouldn't be able to.

I cannot imagine my boys or partner being annoyed that me or their sister weren't being called up to war along with them. I think they would be relieved.

@girlmom21

Do you know what, actually, tell them the truth. There are massive physical differences between men and women, whether we like it or not.

Yes women can fight in wars. Yes women can weightlift. But most women can't compete with most men on that level.

Exactly.

I also find the premise of your post really odd. I am surprised that your DC are bothered to this extent about men, not women, fighting in a war.

There are so many aspects to this horrendous conflict to discuss with children, it's odd to me that this is either your or your DC focus.

Women are staying to fight. Most of those fleeing are going with their children and leaving their husband/partner behind. There’s also some fleeing with elderly/disabled/sick relatives.

I'm not sure why you need to get into the politics. Simply explain in the U.K. both men and women join the armed forces as equals and it's voluntary. Other countries have different rules but they don't need to worry about that because they are British.

My dd is in the armed forces and 1/3 of her intake are female

I'm not sure it's true either.

www.military.com/daily-news/2021/12/27/ukraine-requires-women-register-military-conscription-russia-threat-looms.html

@MiniDaffodils

I have brought them up to think that periods shouldn’t hold any one back. That child rearing is shared equally between men and women (except for the first few months when the women is possibly breast feeding). Also that whilst men are physically stronger that isn’t necessarily a disadvantage in modern combat which relies more on weapons than brute strength.

I don’t feel comfortable saying that actually women can’t go onto the forces because they are physically weaker and have periods - I don’t think that it holds weight as an argument anymore.

I assumed as men and women are both serving in the forces now that both sexes would be conscripted if needed in this country.

Child rearing is shared equally?

Or do you mean should be?

Start in your own home, and be honest with yourself - is that what you truly model to them? Is it just as likely to be dad as mum sorting out that last minute costume for school? Etc

Outside of your home, when your kids were in primary, did they see equal numbers of dads doing school run? (answer, did they fuck)

The children in their class with divorced parents - I bet you there are more who have greater residency with mum.

At school - did they even have a male teacher in primary? If so, bet it wasn’t the majority of years. Not that teaching is caring, but come on - when it’s teaching little kids, it’s the women choosing it.

Your children are absolutely surrounded by women taking a greater “carer” role in their own society.

So whatever your philosophical position, your children have not learned that men and women have equal caring roles.

Loads of women are fighting in Ukraine and very young ones at that. Pix here www.vice.com/en/article/qjbndq/ukrainian-women-soldiers-russia

The simple answer is, as featured on page one of the replies: The Patriarchy.

Being conscripted puts you in a far better position (uniform, training, weapons) if you're in a war than women who get caught up in it without weapons and training. I know which i would rather be (caveat: I was in the military).

And as has been pointed out, many women are staying and fighting (and if i see many more of the glam Ukrainian female soldiers I'm going to pitch a toddler fit) some of whom are in uniform.

Ask yourself, though, OP, what happens to women who stay behind while men go off to fight their wars. Who kept the steel mills going in Sheffield (ask yourself without laughing if you think they got paid the same as the men who were filling the cruicibles and driving the cranes). Who kept the farms running, buses, society. The Land Army is a thing. And there was a generation of British women who were conscripted into uniform. I knew a couple.

it's not as simple as "boys are disposable" because a) they're not and b) when women become scarce we know what that leads to.

I would say to them "it's unfair anyone has to do it. Thank goodness it hasn't happened here. Those poor people having to fight"

I wouldn't divert their attention from the fairness of boys v girls as it is awful for every single person involved. None of it is fair.

The situation in Ukraine is chaotic and involves habd to hand fighting. If men and women are on the frontline they have an equal chance of being taken as prisoners of war . I think most people would agree that that is where the equality ends. The situation for a woman in the hands of the enemy is far more grave than that of a man, no matter how harshly he is treated.

Well, biologically women would breastfeed for a lot more than "the first few months!"

There's a lot that is unfair about war, including that it happens in the first place.