How are you explaining to your boys about only men being conscripted in Ukraine?

[MiniDaffodils]

I have both girls and boys. We have always brought them up to understand that whilst boys may be physically stronger, girls can undertake the same roles in anything as boys can.
My boys are upset at the thought that only men are being made to fight in Ukraine and not women. They think it’s very unfair.
I think they are imagining themselves in that same situation. Obviously I have explained in this country both men and women would be called up to fight. My boys are gentle souls and the thought of only men having to kill others is disturbing them.
My girls are relieved at the idea that women in Ukraine are not called to fight despite usually them being very vocal about the fact boys and girls are equal in all things.
My main question is how to explain this to my sons, rather than my daughters (who don’t seem as bothered by the issue).
Thanks

This thread is bizarre.

Another obvious one... men can't get pregnant. They know men aren't pregnant. Pregnancy and war zones don't mix. They won't have time to do Pregnancy tests on conscripts.

How old are your children?
It’s all a bit whiny and me me me.
I’d shut them up by pointing out that the Russians have a horrible track record of using rape as a weapon.

@MiniDaffodils

I have both girls and boys. We have always brought them up to understand that whilst boys may be physically stronger, girls can undertake the same roles in anything as boys can. My boys are upset at the thought that only men are being made to fight in Ukraine and not women. They think it’s very unfair. I think they are imagining themselves in that same situation. Obviously I have explained in this country both men and women would be called up to fight. My boys are gentle souls and the thought of only men having to kill others is disturbing them. My girls are relieved at the idea that women in Ukraine are not called to fight despite usually them being very vocal about the fact boys and girls are equal in all things. My main question is how to explain this to my sons, rather than my daughters (who don’t seem as bothered by the issue). Thanks

Women are the ones who are giving birth in bunkers and basements with limited help and medical equipment. Sixty eight babies have been born in a makeshift maternity unit in a basement in Kyiv. I would have died if either of my births had occurred in that situation. Both my babies would have died. Men are not having to do that. War is horrendous for both sexes, often in different ways. It isn't a competition.Whoever is physically best suited to a task is doing that task. That applies in peacetime as much as in war. At 56 my children are grown up and my mother could get herself out of danger so I think the anger at what was happening to my country would lead me to stay and fight. I have some experience with shooting. I might make a good sniper but I'd be bloody useless trying to lift shells into an anti tank weapon.

@Twicklette

How I hate on MN that whatever the discussion, in this case brave Ukrainian men fighting to defend their country, some posters jump in to use their favourite term of abuse for men, 'Mummy's boy' for any young man that questions whether he could cope with fighting and even killing someone. I really reckon if sexist, abusive names were counted and analysed on MN, then the term, Mummy's boy would come out on top. It gets shoe horned into so many threads. It is so sexist, and of course, on MN, it is an excuse for women to blame other women. It is such a misogynistic term but so loved on MN, Thankfully, most people in real life avoid such blatant sexist terms.

I agree.

Op you are doing your children a disservice if you are bringing them up to think men and women are exactly the same.

@MiniDaffodils

I have brought them up to think that periods shouldn’t hold any one back. That child rearing is shared equally between men and women (except for the first few months when the women is possibly breast feeding). Also that whilst men are physically stronger that isn’t necessarily a disadvantage in modern combat which relies more on weapons than brute strength.

I don’t feel comfortable saying that actually women can’t go onto the forces because they are physically weaker and have periods - I don’t think that it holds weight as an argument anymore.

I assumed as men and women are both serving in the forces now that both sexes would be conscripted if needed in this country.

It's a luxury to think periods don't have to hold you back. My periods used to make me throw up and pass out. They were also so heavy that I would need to change whatever I was using every hour or two. And there wasn't much the doctors could do to help. Thankfully for me, having kids seems to have helped ease these symptoms but I would have been next to useless on a battlefield at my time of the month!

I find it strange that your sons are not saying “conscription is wrong”.
Instead they are saying “why aren’t women conscripted?”
There’s a difference and it’s not showing them in a very good light.
Good luck to your daughters with these brothers!

My children know that sex matters and men and women are different and that you cannot change biology.

Only women can carry children and that is a risk every time they get pregnant it is a fact. Our bodys are different and both sees are able to do thing the other can't.

Men are physically stronger than women and conscription proves the fact that no matter how you feel biology matters.

In a fair world both sexes would be conscripted but if one country has solely male soldier's the other mixed who is more likely to win?

Women and men are equal but different. They are different biologically. For the purpose of everyday life women and men are equal, periods don’t hold anyone back and women can achieve the same as men and overcome them. However the reality of war is very different from everyday life and by the way the war in Ukraine is very different to wars shown in American films. Can you imagine dealing with periods in Ukrainian winter weather under constant shelling in practically open space?
Just tell your DC the truth.

@Jobseeker19

In a fair world both sexes would be conscripted but if one country has solely male soldier's the other mixed who is more likely to win?

In a fair world, no one would be conscripted.

That doesn't disprove my point.

I don't think anyone is being conscripted (yet)? Men between certain ages are not permitted to leave the country, but those who are fighting are doing so voluntarily. Plenty of others are working in their normal jobs, volunteering to help refugees, or just getting on with their lives as best they can.

Your children need a reality check about the differences between men and women. Tell them about Fallon Fox, biology matters in combat.

Practicality. If you conscript both then you have to test all women for pregnancy as it's not fair to put a pregnant woman in the firing line. Then you'd also have to exempt breastfeeding women. Then work out, for any couples with children, who should be conscripted and who should be let off to look after the children.

That all takes time and effort. How much of that spare do people think Ukraine has right now?

I understand that women can still volunteer to fight.

@Thereisnolight

I find it strange that your sons are not saying “conscription is wrong”. Instead they are saying “why aren’t women conscripted?” There’s a difference and it’s not showing them in a very good light. Good luck to your daughters with these brothers!

This is a good point too.

Also, surely they've seen the physical differences between you and their dad. I bet it's the boys who help dad lift heavy boxes or whatever isn't it?

The truth is that war is more than about fighting on the front line - it's actually only a fairly small element of it albeit it is the most visible - bombing campaigns, drone strikes can be done from hundreds of miles away infront of a computer or on board a ship - a role that a woman can equally do as a man. There is also mass logistics, maintaining of infrastructure and services, and services like the Royal Navy and RAF - people always see the army and think that's all war is about when it involves combined services probably 75% or more which does not involve street to street fighting

I'd be concerned OP that your sons are already acting rathe petulantly and complaint about the "fairness" of it

@girlmom21

Do you know what, actually, tell them the truth. There are massive physical differences between men and women, whether we like it or not.

Yes women can fight in wars. Yes women can weightlift. But most women can't compete with most men on that level.

During lockdown my DH and I both did the fitness thing to fill in the time at home. He bought a set of weights. I thought I would use the lightest weights in his set to workout. I could lift the lightest one if I used both hands. I could do squats with it but I certainly couldn't lift it over my head, even with 2 hands.I bought myself a set of weights for women. My heaviest weight was still half the weight of the lightest one he had. He is not a muscled god and I am not a stick thin ,weedy person but as an average man and an average women we have enormous physical differences. It is daft to bring your children up to think that all men and all women are physically equal. We aren't.

OP, maybe it's because we are constantly told that women can do anything that men can but when the shit hits the fan there's suddenly a very long list of reasons why women can't do the one thing that might save us ... and if you're a male that feels unfair.

@AngelinaFibres this is it exactly. And considering we're talking about Joe Public - your average man has much more natural physical strength.

It's mad isn't it. You don't notice the difference until a situation like yours!

I'm a bit confused that so many MNers don't seem to get what to me is the obvious answer to this.
Women's bodies are so much more precious than men's because women are the ones who can repopulate the tribe / country. Men are a lot more disposable.

A (metaphorical) handful of men can impregnate a near unfinished number of women and get a country back tonits former population on a reasonable timescale.

Whereas if equal numbers of young men and young women are lost, then the ramifications of this for repopulating are much more serious.

These rules, conventions were established millenia ago when these things were life or death for a tribe. Protect the women and children at all costs, they are where the future lies. A crowd of men with only a few women of child bearing age is not conducive to a happy or successful society

Bringing your DC up with 'periods shouldn't hold you back' won't be helpful if they have periods that make them feel physically ill will it?

Women and men are different. They would also be under constant threat from sexual assault from the men they are fighting alongside and the ones they are fighting against.

You could explain to them that it's men who start wars, so it's only fair that they have to go and fight them too.

I think a lot of young people have watched too many superhero films and believe that if women would just work a bit harder that they can be as strong as men.
Of course, there are outliers, but in general, men are much stronger than women. It's just a fact and it doesn't do anyone any good to ignore it.

and if you're a male that feels unfair.

I can’t say that I have ever felt it was unfair. For front line troops, the reasons why it is so are obvious.