How are you explaining to your boys about only men being conscripted in Ukraine?

[MiniDaffodils]

I have both girls and boys. We have always brought them up to understand that whilst boys may be physically stronger, girls can undertake the same roles in anything as boys can.
My boys are upset at the thought that only men are being made to fight in Ukraine and not women. They think it’s very unfair.
I think they are imagining themselves in that same situation. Obviously I have explained in this country both men and women would be called up to fight. My boys are gentle souls and the thought of only men having to kill others is disturbing them.
My girls are relieved at the idea that women in Ukraine are not called to fight despite usually them being very vocal about the fact boys and girls are equal in all things.
My main question is how to explain this to my sons, rather than my daughters (who don’t seem as bothered by the issue).
Thanks

*women even

I keep coming back to OPs My boys are upset at the thought that only men are being made to fight in Ukraine and not women. They think it’s very unfair.
How old are they, OP? how old are your girls (if you don't mind sharing . even primary/secondary age) "unfair" is difficult to counter, to be honest, as things often seem unfair to a person affected by something but not observers.

I think it would be quite reasonable to say that it is unfair, that ideally those chosen to fight would be the most able rather than only the men, but that in a conflict situation and without notice it's rather hard to say who is the most able, so they are using M/F as an imperfect rule of thumb. Obviously on an individual level this will often be unfair. If I were OP and depending on their ages, I might ask DC for their thoughts on what might be a fairer realistic approach.

Do you think Ukranians are stupid or something?? Do you think you are smarter than them??? They are desperate to win, they know what they are doing by making these rules.

''Periods shouldn't hold someone back''

YES MAYBE IN AN OFFICE BEHIND A DESK, NOT IN A WAR ZONE

Try telling an endo sufferer this or someone who deals with period problems like I do ( severe heavy bleeding that lasts weeks where I end up aneamic and nothing helps )

Let's not even talk about how many women suffer from stuff like endo and go for like a decade with excruciating period pain and have to miss work and school before being diagnosed because doctors dont take them seriously.

You tell them:

Men are physically stronger, bigger, don't have to bleed in pain every month, don't deal with stuff like pmdd and the pains of pms, menopause and women are at a much higher risk of being raped!!

Have you seen sexual assaults in the military???

She will be assaulted/raped by her own and the enemy.

I'm laughing (although it's not funny) that people are getting so ridiculous about op's children being upset that if they lived in another country someone would be sending them out to die and or kill. Can you honestly not put all the 'women have to' stuff aside? Would you not be upset by this?

I don't think it's really morally justifiable. It's a holdover of sexist viewpoints being backwards rationalised. The days of war requiring the ability to physically overpower another human being are mostly gone.

Take the population point being made by many posters. There is no imperative to keeping our population levels where they are. Fewer people means fewer resources needed and fewer people needed to maintain them. If you want to emerge from a war with a civilization that bears some resemblance to the present, you would probably want to keep gender ratios balanced.

If you really want to see a patriarchy in action, remove one of the major sources of social leverage that women have (their mating and dating choices) by reducing relative supply of men and demand of women.

This might help explain some of what women have been able to contribute in war situations without being conscripted or involved in close combat.

Just because women aren't having to engage in these things (and many are choosing to stay and do so) does not minimise their contribution, risk or suffering.

www.thehistorypress.co.uk/women-s-history/women-and-war/#:~:text=Not%20only%20were%20women%20encouraged,roles%20for%20women%20ranged%20widely.

And don’t get me started in trying to sort out tampons in a muddy ditch in the middle of an exercise,

I feel your pain. Glad i did all that so long ago that the memories have faded nicely

@RJnomore1

The thing is if the same applies in women then why even push to include them in the military at all? We need armies for when it actually matters not when it’s convenient to mark off women’s numbers for PR during pointless war excersises. If it all falls to shit in a crisis (which is what we actually have the armed forces for) then why bother? If it’s all a fantasy?

And if men know this is how it will go when shit hits the fan then why would they ever take on responsibility for child rearing in the way women do (in the main)? Apparently no one will thank them least of all the women who say it’s appropriate for them to fight now.

If we can never be equal in these things and it will always be this way and everyone knows it then why persist with the fantasy? It can never be true if we (rightly) don’t take it completely seriously.

The days of war requiring the ability to physically overpower another human being are mostly gone.

Bullshit they are.

You need to teach your boys the difference between equality and equity.
The people of Ukraine are proving to be exceptionally brave. Both the men staying to fight and the women and children who are journeying hundreds of miles, in harsh conditions, many to places unknown.
They think temperatures are going to hit -20 this weekend. Just because women aren’t being called to fight doesn’t make their response less brave-just brave in a different way.
The lesson for your boys is in responsibility to family, friends and community. Bravery comes in all forms and hope exists in the darkest of times.

OP: My boys are upset at the thought that only men are being made to fight in Ukraine and not women. They think it’s very unfair.

I think it's 'very unfair' that male violence is overwhelmingly responsible for the vast majority of war, conflict, fighting, aggression, physical abuse, and rape across the whole planet, throughout the whole of history!

In normal day-to-day life, women more than pull their weight. I can't understand the fuss about them making less of a contribution in warfare tbh.

... because military service in time of war isn't quite the same has throwing the vacuum round, dropping the kids off or loading the washing machine, is it ?????? .

If you are not willing to fight for your freedom, because you do the dishwasher, then you get Putin. Try shouting or for your rights then.

I don’t feel comfortable saying that actually women can’t go onto the forces because they are physically weaker and have periods - I don’t think that it holds weight as an argument anymore.

Just because you don’t feel comfortable saying it, doesn’t mean it’s not true. Simple biology means men are used at the front and if women are used it’s generally in support functions.

I assumed as men and women are both serving in the forces now that both sexes would be conscripted if needed in this country.

I don’t think that’s a correct assumption, I would think much more likely that men would be conscripted for combat roles and women who don’t have kids and are under a certain age may be conscripted for various support roles. I don’t think this is any different to previous wars to be honest, but eligible women were ‘assigned’ tasks which were pretty much compulsory but the word conscription wasn’t used and they were not fighting roles.

Your education of your children seems very Pollyanna style and more suited to some utopian Star Trek situation than the reality we live with. If I have a stubborn jar lid I can’t budge I’d ask my 24yo son to have a crack in preference to my 20yo daughter for example. I wouldn’t give it to my daughter and tell her she will have no issues because girls/boys are equal because that’s not true where biology is concerned.

I think the idea of conscription for anyone is utterly hideous. Being FORCED to fight on the front line, even when it is absolutely the wrong thing for your personality, makes me feel physically sick. I can imagine loads of people would rise to the challenge and cope, but I never would have been able to. I'd put my all into the war effort in other ways, but I am so so wussy I'd die on the spot. What help would that be?!

Some of the worst men are the ones who feel empowered by their 'feminism'. Just what we need is men who whine that women aren't being sent to the front line. Fab. It's absurd to think women are physically the same as men. Can make soldiers be raped and become pregnant? Are we going to do abortions on the front line?

@Brefugee

I mean ignorance around it being like video games, absolutely none of the tech is.

well, we will diagree on that. And my friends who have told me exactly this about some aspects of their work will continue to likening it to playing video games.

I hope they don't truly believe that given the equipment they must be referring to, although if they do think that then great we can just get a load of random people in to do their jobs and save some money :)

OP keen to know how they have been contributing to dismantling the patriarchy, or after a lifetime of male privilege are they finally feeling a bit hard done by?

Well, you could make a start by telling your kids about British conscription of men and women when we went to war.

Then to avoid misleading your boys, you could educate yourself about female conscription in Ukraine

I’m not

He’s 11

His focus is rugby, chess, maths, lost in space tv show and sweets.

Long may it last

@ChocolateMassacre

The point is they are all for pushing for men to take up more slack in women’s roles and think it bad and unfair when people argue that men shouldnt - yet here we have some children thinking it’s unfair that women not take up a male role and they are dead against it and think it’s unfair that women be expected too.

Unless your only concerned with women and not men the obvious point is that it’s very hypocritical to want men to take up women’s roles for the good of women, but are offended by the idea that women be asked to take up men’s roles when those roles are unpleasant.

Personally I don’t care and don’t think they belong there and would just get in the way in the main and are better off getting the children safe. But if someone is very gung ho on men being equal in child rearing etc - it’s a little rich to take that attitude.

I bet you’re going to tell us they are all under the age of 6 soon

I think one of your roles as a mother in these times is to mentally support your children and not to indulge in conversations where your principles about sexual equality take top priority over reality.

@MiniDaffodils

I have brought them up to think that periods shouldn’t hold any one back. That child rearing is shared equally between men and women (except for the first few months when the women is possibly breast feeding). Also that whilst men are physically stronger that isn’t necessarily a disadvantage in modern combat which relies more on weapons than brute strength.

I don’t feel comfortable saying that actually women can’t go onto the forces because they are physically weaker and have periods - I don’t think that it holds weight as an argument anymore.

I assumed as men and women are both serving in the forces now that both sexes would be conscripted if needed in this country.

Then just tell them it's because many women are pregnant or breastfeeding. They can volunteer if they want but pregnant women should not be made to fight and breastfeeding women cannot leave their children.

It isn't a bad thing for them to understand and respect the process of bringing children into the world and the ways in which it only physically affects women, even if after that point child rearing is shared. These parts cannot be.

It's unfair to women too, remember what the Russians did to women in WW2??

Raped girls from 4 to 85.

I wish I could find a video where a ww2 elderly russian gentleman tells a lovely story of how he watched young girls being gang raped and fed to pigs.

Ukranian women have a lot to look forward to if Russia wins.

I have brought them up to think that periods shouldn’t hold any one back

What an exhausting mother

When I have my period, I often like to completely down tools on my day off and spend the day chilling and doing absolutely bugger all.
If you were my mother, you’d no doubt make me feel I was letting the side down