Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

@Scianel

It's here twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1500532283949953031

It's saying "could" put some other sources are reporting as more of a done deal thing.

This sounds like a terrible idea if it goes ahead

The MIG's will travel hidden in a convoy and then unloaded at a Ukraine held airbase. This will avoid the whole taking off from a NATO country.

I guess not impossible but something like a MIG-29 is a seriously big piece of equipment so you would almost certainly need to break the aircraft down into major sub-assemblies to transport them by road.

It would be very very tough to do a breakdown and then a rebuild in the time that might be available

Mind you I suppose it is not impossible somebody might find a cunning way of transporting them intact whilst hiding them from prying eyes…

Totally understand everyone who is feeling like they can't cope with the news we are hearing and how utterly powerless we feel.
Please take comfort in anything you can do. It might seem small but writing to your MP to support refugees, donating to charity, anything is better than nothing.
Sorry if this sounds patronising or obvious - I just think we can do small things individually that could make a difference in total.
The idea up thread of supporting refugees through sponsorship is also worth looking at.

Just seen this and terrified for the people of Ukraine

Russian aircraft are departing massively from Belarus towards Ukraine. According to @MotolkoHelp, this is the largest departure during the last week. In many Ukrainian cities, an airstrike alert is on. My thoughts are with the struggling people of Ukraine now.

@notimagain

The MIG's will travel hidden in a convoy and then unloaded at a Ukraine held airbase. This will avoid the whole taking off from a NATO country.

I guess not impossible but something like a MIG-29 is a seriously big piece of equipment so you would almost certainly need to break the aircraft down into major sub-assemblies to transport them by road.

It would be very very tough to do a breakdown and then a rebuild in the time that might be available

Mind you I suppose it is not impossible somebody might find a cunning way of transporting them intact whilst hiding them from prying eyes…

On the article it does say they are discussing the plans but it could be very difficult to do. Also sounds very much like what putin meant when he told the west to stay out of it or else.

Should they really be even reporting this in this much detail? Surely it should be classified?

@Bunnyfuller

We’re all just going to let this happen, aren’t we?

We are not letting it happen.

The West has sent an unprecedented amount of weapons to Ukraine and unleashed crippling financial sanctions that as equally without precedent.

The EU has opened its boarder to Ukrainian refugees (U.K. needs to massive step up here).

A no fly zone won't impact/stop the shelling by Russian forces which is the major cause of destruction.

Short of declaring war on Russia and risk pushing Putin towards a nuclear option there is not much more we can do.

As is Russia cant fund this war forever. Something is going to have to give.

I appreciate that every day that passes is a tragedy for the Ukrainian people, but the answer isn't to escalate this to a European/World wide war.

@Gingerwarthog

Totally understand everyone who is feeling like they can't cope with the news we are hearing and how utterly powerless we feel. Please take comfort in anything you can do. It might seem small but writing to your MP to support refugees, donating to charity, anything is better than nothing. Sorry if this sounds patronising or obvious - I just think we can do small things individually that could make a difference in total. The idea up thread of supporting refugees through sponsorship is also worth looking at.

I have emailed my local MP but he is completely useless and always has been, however I’ve had a few letters now from local people saying they are doing collections of items and money donations and the council is matching it

@Scianel

Should they really be even reporting this in this much detail? Surely it should be classified?

It feels like they are all goading putin

Thanks notimagain and BreadinCaptivity.

We are hearing about the Russian military not being so mighty after all. That failed column in the north stalled in their journey towards Kyiv a stark and frankly horrifying (for the Russian soldiers trapped in there) example of this.

But I understand the operations in the South are going better. There has been a lot of shelling and artillery directed against cities like Mariupol and Kherson. Is that part of things going well for the Russians?

Will the Russians run out of artillery eventually?

@RedToothBrush

Elly Arrow@EllyArrow German police confirm: Traffickers are targeting Ukranian women and children arriving in Germany with dubious promises of shelter and employment. There isn't a crisis that they won't exploit. Paid access to women's bodies is in high demand in Germany, this is the logical result.

Utterly depressing.

This is absolutely despicable.

@nottinghamsupporter

I feel sick reading about it. I can't believe this is happening. I think I'm going to come off social media and all news apps for a while.

I’m thinking this wouldn’t be bad idea for myself either

@Scianel

It's not as simple as handing over planes

It's okay, I'm not in charge of that.

I've provided a twitter link to the Telegraph story.

Just seen - thank you

@Thewayshetalks
Yes - lots of small scale community stuff happening which is amazing.

www.politico.eu/article/us-secretary-of-state-confirms-plans-to-supply-ukraine-with-fighter-jets-via-poland/amp/

Article about the US/Poland plane deal not behind a paywall.

@Scianel

Should they really be even reporting this in this much detail? Surely it should be classified?

Reporting what in so much detail?

@RedToothBrush

Elly Arrow@EllyArrow German police confirm: Traffickers are targeting Ukranian women and children arriving in Germany with dubious promises of shelter and employment. There isn't a crisis that they won't exploit. Paid access to women's bodies is in high demand in Germany, this is the logical result.

Utterly depressing.

I suppose this was to be expected, fucking bastards. I hope the authorities are doing something to try to prevent this, not sure what could be done but I hope someone has thought of something and is doing it.

The Polish planes are being reported in such great detail precisely so that Russia can't claim that Poland is invading them.

Poland will decommission the planes and sell them for a token amount. The RAF or another NATO air force will hang out in Poland while Polish pilots train in UK or other country to fly the new planes.

@Scianel

Should they really be even reporting this in this much detail? Surely it should be classified?

my point also bizarre

@notimagain

The MIG's will travel hidden in a convoy and then unloaded at a Ukraine held airbase. This will avoid the whole taking off from a NATO country.

I guess not impossible but something like a MIG-29 is a seriously big piece of equipment so you would almost certainly need to break the aircraft down into major sub-assemblies to transport them by road.

It would be very very tough to do a breakdown and then a rebuild in the time that might be available

Mind you I suppose it is not impossible somebody might find a cunning way of transporting them intact whilst hiding them from prying eyes…

I'm sure they will find a way or even a loophole of how to get Ukrainian fighter pilots in to the cockpit.

America have the whole "Loan and Lease" laws that allowed them to supply arms at an unbelievable rate to the allied forces. So they could enact something like that. Perhaps loan a aircraft carrier to Ukraine for a day in international waters. 😂

@blueshoes

Thanks notimagain and BreadinCaptivity.

We are hearing about the Russian military not being so mighty after all. That failed column in the north stalled in their journey towards Kyiv a stark and frankly horrifying (for the Russian soldiers trapped in there) example of this.

But I understand the operations in the South are going better. There has been a lot of shelling and artillery directed against cities like Mariupol and Kherson. Is that part of things going well for the Russians?

Will the Russians run out of artillery eventually?

Yes they are doing better in the South but to take the country they need to capture the capital and govt.

Gaining land is one thing, but you then have to hold it. Not so easy with a very resistant population.

The irony is the more land you take, the more troops you expend on keeping the population in check - a distraction from using those troops to push forwards.

Ukraine is a big country so that's a hell of a lot of boots on the ground, not to fight the war but police the Ukrainian people in parts of the country that are not necessarily going to be decisive in winning this war if Kyiv can hold out.

Last week NATO said they wouldn't get involved. Now they might be getting drawn in?

@PestorPeston

The Polish planes are being reported in such great detail precisely so that Russia can't claim that Poland is invading them.

Poland will decommission the planes and sell them for a token amount. The RAF or another NATO air force will hang out in Poland while Polish pilots train in UK or other country to fly the new planes.

From the article Poland is asking the US for F-16's that Polish pilots are able to fly (they have been investing in these and gradually reducing their reliance on the MiG's apparently).

I'd assume that's why they are negotiating with the US because the Eurofighters we have in the U.K. and EU won't work for them re: capability to man the planes themselves.

@Ciaram55

Last week NATO said they wouldn't get involved. Now they might be getting drawn in?

Define "drawn in".

We are already "in" wrt supplying weapons and sanctions.

Where NATO is stopping short is providing forces on the ground/in the air or NATO countries providing a base of military operations for Ukraine.

I don't see that changing tbh unless Russia thinks it's only way out of the mess it's in is to escalate by attacking a member of NATO.

Are the Russians doing better in the South because they have Crimea and also naval support, can't imagine their warships aren't in range of places like Mariupol, easy enough to bombard from off shore ?